Lemon too much pith too little juice (forum)

Brad starts with ...
I know I've come across this before but my memory fails me. Mum's lemon tree usually gives nice juicy lemons. Recent crops are much less juicy and have much thicker skin and pith. The tree is at least 15 years old.

I'll make sure it gets a balanced feed before spring, but what's the key to revert back to good fruit?

Time: 16th May 2010 10:58am

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amanda says...
Hi Brad - this link may help...(maybe the N:P ratio is the cause..)

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/horticulture/citrus/management/nutrition/nutrition

From what I can gather also - too much Nitrogen while fruit growing can produce poor quality fruit also?

Time: 16th May 2010 11:29am

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Brad says...
ta. I suspect more likely not enough P rather than too much N but I'll check what it was fed. I want lemons for lemonade again. I'll see if the leaves give any hints too

Time: 17th May 2010 2:03am

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Phil@Tyalgum says...
One way of reducing pith and gaining juice is to pick lemons with a bit of stem still attached and allow them to keep - an old gardeners trick but it works well. Peter Cundall on ABC Gardening Australia recommends it, somehow in storage the juice content increases at the expense of the thick rind, but leaving a couple of inches of stem attached prevents the lemon from spoiling in the meantime. Just keep it on the kitchen bench with your normal fruit.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 17th May 2010 4:23am

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Brendan says...
Hi Brad,
Usually, fruit with thick skin and pith is due to the tree lacking potassium.
I'd give it some sulphate of potash at a handful to the sq metre from the trunk out to and past the dripline.
I'd give it some dolomite and epsom salts as well.

Time: 17th May 2010 5:40am

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Brad says...
thanks all. Potash and Epsom salts were definitely on the menu.

Phil - yep I know that one, but these have gotten really bad where they used to be fantastic.
Brendan - why the dolomite? for Calcium, pH or more magnesium?

Time: 17th May 2010 12:27pm

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kert says...
OK ,you already have had wisdom from the usual suspects so here is one more; do not leave on tree too long as the tree reabsorbs moisture.Relieving Boron deficiency worked once for me on a mandarin that was dry; and the literature supports this.

Time: 17th May 2010 2:33pm

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amanda says...
I have dry mandarins too - but the pith is normal. It's my Imperial tree - which grew the bulk of the fruit thru' summer. The Emporer is about a month away and so far it's fine....they are in the same orchard and get treated the same.
Can too much summer heat (and thus -maybe insufficient water) do this the mandarins do u think?

The fruit on the north side actually got sunburnt...

But my limes and lemons are juicy as...sometimes there seems no rhyme or reason to these things?

Time: 17th May 2010 5:55pm

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Brad says...
Thanks kert. They're freshly ripe. Boron should be ok but I'll double check for symptoms

Time: 17th May 2010 8:18pm

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chris says...
As has already been stated, leaving the lemons on the tree too long will result in a thickening of the skin. As will excess N as fruit is developing. A good dose of potash will help correct this.
Extremely doubtful it is boron deficiency Kurt. Boron deficiency is easily determined.Boron deficiency results in pockets of gum in the white part of the rind, and is not confined to one or two segments of the fruit. Start messing around with boron (borax) and you will kill the tree and the soil. It is highly toxic in even small amounts.

Time: 20th May 2010 4:33pm

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kert says...
Chris, it is not always the case that all the boxes need to be ticked for a syndrome to be present . Dry citrus can be caused by B def. and, as you said ,careful supplementation is best. Incidentally if something is too close to the text book one would smell a rat.

Time: 20th May 2010 6:49pm

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Julie says...
Brad, have you had a look at the leaves? They are often a good indication of what's going on. Check out this site - it has a few good photos.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/horticulture/citrus/management/nutrition/nutrition

Oops! I see amanda has already mentioned that one. Still worth a look.

Time: 20th May 2010 8:21pm

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Chris says...
With the big dry out west I would also ask the obvious--did it get enough water throughout the year?

Time: 20th May 2010 8:31pm

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john says...
Hi,

Also take into consideration depending on what rootstock its grafted onto will also alter the quality of the fruit. It can also change the fruiting times, it all changes...


Time: 20th May 2010 8:52pm

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Julie says...
My lemon tree seems healthy, and the fruit looks good. But when I juice them they are fleshy, with hardly any juice.

Any ideas?

Time: 18th September 2011 7:40pm

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John Mc says...
Julie, do you use a standard citrus fertiliser? If you are, you shouldn't be having those problems.
Sounds like a nutrient imbalance to me. Too much nitrogen will see the tree look and grow nice and healthy, but, it will affect the way it takes up phosphorous and produce flowers and fruit. It's either too much nitrogen or too little phosphorous. Im my opinion, I'd be adding a little phosphorous if your not using the above.

Time: 18th September 2011 8:04pm

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Julie says...
Thanks John. My main fertiliser for citrus is Dynamic Lifter, but not overdone - I wouldn't think too much nitrogen. So I may try the phosphorous.

Time: 19th September 2011 4:41pm

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amanda says...
Hey Julie - I am with John Mc there (again!) Most of the info I have researched also says this is an N/P imbalance (too much N, too little P)

My main fert is Dynamic lifter too - but I apply some phos in autumn - ready for the winter rains...(just a handful every year - not heaps) They have very little pith and I must admit I am very proud of my citrus - they are pretty good (even if nothing else is! lol)

Time: 19th September 2011 7:40pm

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John Mc says...
Yes, I mainly use a complete chemical citrus fertilizer with some organics on top like lucerne hay mulched up then spread around the tree. I found that to be the easiest way. This year, a commercial tomato hydroponic farm up the road was getting rid of their coco medium still in the gro-bags. There was tons of the stuff for the taking. I know it would be a good mulch for citrus because of the high nutrients tomatoes need to produce heavy commercial crops. All I had to do was split the bags and mulch up the contents, beautiful stuff.

Time: 19th September 2011 8:05pm

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Chris says...
Julie,
two questions 1) Is the tree old (15 years)? 2) is it a Eureka?
If the answer is yes to both then it will have very little to do with nutrition and more to do with the rootstock.


Time: 19th September 2011 10:29pm

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amanda says...
What rootstock did they use back then Chris? That's interesting as I sometimes find old lemons trees can be like this - I thought it was because they were just neglected.
I have a Eureka now (3yrs old) and it's great - so is that on a different rootstock?

(Nice score John Mc!! I would love a heap of that stuff..)

Time: 20th September 2011 9:17am

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Brad says...
@john - if the coco medium is very fibrous, be careful it doesn't act as a wick and take moisture away from soil and expose to air.
you might want to cover the top of the coco medium with something else, to avoid wind exposure.
I also find if it dries out, coco isn't so easy to re-wet. I use coco as soil medium and worm food, but not as a mulch.

@julie - my first thought reading your post was the age of the tree? knowing you know how to look after citrus, it seems Chris is probably on the right track

Time: 20th September 2011 11:51am

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John Mc says...
@ Brad,
thanks for the heads up, I'll have a closer look. If that's the case, it would be an excellent soil saturator if raked into the top few inches of soil. Maybe, after it's useful life as a hydro medium, it's all but broken down. It doesn't set hard like some mulches but stays friable and blows around in the wind when dry. I only throw a few handfulls around each tree then cover it with mulched up lucerne or mowed grass.


Time: 20th September 2011 2:32pm

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Julie says...
Chris, yes the tree is 15-20 years old. Can't remember name of the variety, but it's the one that's supposed to have fruit all-year-round. Hah! The odd lemon in summer is all. But it used to be OK, so I'm thinking a nutrient problem. Will try phos.

Citrus all act differently at my place. The easiest is the Tahitian lime, which never has dead wood, stays green and has a huge crop each spring. Next is mandarin, which never seems to have problems.

My Seville had a severe mag deficiency one time, but other citrus never did. Oranges usually OK, but this year NO fruit. I put it down to the huge Camphor laurel nearby which probably sucked up all the water over the last hot,dry summer.

Heard on TV last night we are in for another one (they were talking about bushfires).

Time: 20th September 2011 7:38pm

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