Suggestions? - white sapote trees in melbourne (forum)

Damian starts with ...
Hi,

Bought some white sapote trees from Daileys a 2-3 months ago and plantted them in large pots. I am in melbourne. I have ensured they get day sun. I have 3 plants, hawaiian, golden globe and chris.

I got the golden globe first, it has dropped half it's leaves, the other 2 is doing fine, however none of the 3 appears to be "growing". I can see the buds since I got them but there has been no action for 3 months, they are not dead but not growing.

Can anyone suggest if this is normal or if I may be doing something wrong? I read somewhere there are 2 growth spurts in a year, is this true? Do they stop growing altogether if not in the growing period?

Its warming up here and has been 10-20 degrees for about a month and a half now, the babaco is shooting up like weeds, but strangely another subtropical tree grown in the same place, same potting mix and same watering/fertilizing regime, all 3 white sapotes are not growing. Puzzling.


Thanks

Damian

Time: 22nd October 2008 7:31am

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Tran says...
Don't worry about that Damian. They should be fine. It takes time to adapt to the new environment. I remember mine was like that when I first had them. We eat and throw seeds in the garden and the seedlings survive well over winter until I pull them out.
By the way, I left one of the seedlings going and after 6 years I have discovered it is having flowers hopefully it will fruit, will see if the fruit is the same as its parent.

Time: 22nd October 2008 9:14am

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vanl says...
Hi Tran,

I came from Vietnam also.
I have a White Sapote tree unknown variety, that is quite large (about 3m) that doesn't seem to flower or bear fruit at all. It had some tiny fruits when it was still in a pot but it now in open ground. It's a vigorous grower so I prune it back a bit every year. Do you have any suggestion on how to get it fruiting again?

Time: 23rd October 2008 9:59am

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Tran says...
Hi Vanl,

I would suggest you give it some potasium fetilizer according to instrutions in the bag or some citrus food around the canopy line and water after that and see how you go.

Please note that if it is vigorous it could mean too much nitrogen or water so it may not produce any flowers just leaves instead so you may have to reduce that.
Mine I bought from Perry in SA They fruited in the second year.

Time: 23rd October 2008 12:13pm

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Jason says...
Damian, those sapotes will be fine, they take a while to aclimatise. Almost all trees bought from the North will complain at first and usually get rid of all the leaves they had grown in the subtropics and then grow leaves to suit Victoria.

One thing tho for anyone else that reads this, none of those three varieties are ideal for Victoria, they are all suited to a warmer climate. In order.. Vernon, (Vista, Pike these two are very similar) Ortega and even Macs Golden are better choices for Victoria and Tasmania. My Sapotes are flowering now and will be pushing new growth in about 2-4 weeks and that's pretty typical

Time: 29th October 2008 4:33pm

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fruitist says...
Mulch well. They have masses of fibrous roots. Can smother other trees with their roots.

Time: 3rd November 2008 10:14am

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fruitist says...
How to improve fruit yield of White Sapote? I have a Pike cultivar. It is supposed to be a heavy cropper. But mine only produce a few fruits each year for the last 3 years. This year only 3 fruits ripening now and one fruit just set from the Spring flowers just finished. Anyone has experience with the Pike cultivar?

Time: 4th November 2008 12:23pm

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Tran says...
I have 2 trees, one is ortegon on pike (one pike branch only), the other is venon. The pike branch has given me huge fruits but not in the last two years due to last year I trim some of the long arm off. I was told that pike and venon are alternate bearers. It is true with venon but I am not sure about pike. My ortegon and venon have lots of young fruits at the moment. I rarely water and I give them twice a year citrus fertilizer but mulch heavily.

Time: 4th November 2008 2:36pm

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Mike says...
If anyone in Melbourne has a seedling of Vernon or Ortega available I'd be interested in buying it off you. I've been waiting to hear back from Daley's but its taking a while and I'd like to plant one into the ground soon. If you think another variety is better eating and suitable for Melbourne climate I'd be much interested.

Time: 2nd October 2009 11:33pm

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Phil. says...
Have you tried Adrian and Marilyn in Glen Lyon, near Daylesford? I got a Vista graft from them and from memory they had Vernon and Ortego available as well. Worth a drive out there just to see their setup.
5348 7532
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Time: 3rd October 2009 10:40am

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Mike says...
Phil, wow what a great photo. Is that your tree or one from Adrian's Glenlyon property? I'll look into it but I'm still hoping someone in Melbourne has one.

Time: 3rd October 2009 6:55pm

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Ellen says...
Hi Phil

when the fruits ripe ready for eating, can you please pick one, cut in half and take a picture at close up, so we can see what it's like on the inside of the fruit. Thanks Phil .

Time: 4th October 2009 8:57am

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Phil. says...
That pic is from Google images, my trees are a few years off bearing as yet. There is another US website, the "Cloudforest Cafe" which has lots of pics of white sapote fruit, mostly Californian growers who upload their own images. Well worth checking out.

Time: 4th October 2009 9:21am

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Rob says...
Has anyone had any success growing a lemon gold white sapote in melbourne? I have one in a pot about a year old that has its first fruit on it:)


Time: 13th May 2010 7:57pm

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J says...
"fruitist says...
Mulch well. They have masses of fibrous roots. Can smother other trees with their roots."

I am planting some of my white sapotes about 2 metres away from a couple of citrus trees. Are the citrus in danger?

Time: 14th May 2010 11:00pm

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amanda says...
Hi J, 2m is not a lot of space?....probably depends on your soil type (if it's rich n fertile), how much pruning u want to do, and if the sapotes are going to shade out the citrus? The sapotes are going to grow very big unless you plan on pruning them back?
I would agree with fruitist about the root system - my two Lemon Golds put down a heavy duty root system faster than any other fruit trees I have.
U can do it - but u may have a challenge on your hands...just make sure the citrus get their sun or u won't get a lot of fruit from them...

Time: 16th May 2010 12:02pm

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J says...
Hey amanda, thanks for the reply. I plan on keeping the sapotes about 2 meters to 2.5 tall with plenty of pruning. The citrus should still get plenty of sunlight as I don't plan on letting the sapotes take over(above ground atleast!!) plus it is a slope I am planting on and the citrus are at the top and the sapotes in the middle.

I was concerned about the distance so I called up Perrys fruit and nut in SA, whom I bought the Sapotes off. They advised 1.5m to 2m should not be a problem because thats the distance they plant their white sapotes, and they've had no problems.
Having said that, that is a nursery environment, and none of those trees get too big.
Another solution I was advised: Encourage deep root development. One way is by deep root feeding, which is what I was going to do anyway. But the other is: when planting into the ground, plant with the plant still in the pot but have the bottom of the pot cut out so the roots can only head downwards.
What do you think of this solution, amanda (and/or anyone else)?

Time: 17th May 2010 9:51am

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amanda says...
Hi J - they are ideas worth trying for sure. Another idea is "root pruning" in situ - which has been the method, in Italy, of keeping tree roots more confined (u just get a shovel and slice into the ground as far as it can go - maybe in a line between the sapote and citrus trees?)
I am planning on doing this shortly - except deep ripping with machinery - in the ground between my orchard and 4 hungry gum trees about 20m away (as gum tree roots can travel up to 50m)

By deep root feeding do u mean a polypipe or such embedded down into the ground? I think that's a great idea! Do it for the citrus too if u can - they will love it as they as they are greedy trees.

I don't know about the pot in the ground...most plastics will become brittle over time and break with the pressure of the root system I would have thought? Worth a try tho'.

Mangoes are often grown very close together up north and then pruned to form a hedge (hedge-row?) so they spread out within the row but not between...makes picking easier etc.

Another thought is a root barrier in a line between the two - a bit of work but only has to be done once..?

I am really impressed with my sapotes...a wonderful strong tree and I don't have any pest problems with them at all.

Time: 17th May 2010 10:16am

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J says...
Hey amanda all those suggestions are just super. I'm actually running a bit behind schedule, my white sapotes were meant to be in the ground 2 months ago (damn landscaping and agapantha weed removal) but I'll be putting 3 of them in the next couple of days.

I was worried about planting them into the ground so close to winter but Perrys said with white sapotes it doesnt really matter. I'm wondering if the same could be said about Wheeny Grapefruit and Lisbon lemons?

Time: 17th May 2010 3:15pm

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amanda says...
Hi J, the sapotes should be fine - it get's down to to 4 oC here in Autumn (as no cloud cover) - they are not at all bothered by it.
I always plant my trees in autumn and winter - including citrus - so yours should be fine also.
My subtropicals were planted at all sorts of times...(oops..)
Do u get frost - is this your concern? Where are u BTW?

Time: 17th May 2010 5:46pm

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J says...
Amanda, thanks heaps for the advice. I am in upwey, victoria, which is at the foothills of the dandenongs. Lots gum trees about so we don't get too many frosts apparently (apparently because this is the first winter I've spent around these parts).

I've got all my feijoas, strawberry & yellow cherry guavas, ammerican pawpaws, meyer & lemonade lemons, tahitan lime and japanese raisin tree in the ground. The white sapotes go in this week (some today) and the bluberries and raspberries next month. Yes, if all the plants/trees survive it will be fruitopia at some point!

Really really want to locate the "Suebelle" variety of white sapote here in australia. Anyone know where I can get em?

Time: 18th May 2010 11:53am

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amanda says...
Hi all - do white sapotes fruit on new growth or old growth?

Time: 19th May 2010 9:26am

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JUJUBE FOR SALE IN MELBOURNE says...
Hi Amanda,

Mine do fruit on both new and old qrowth but most of the time new growth.

Time: 20th May 2010 7:16am

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amanda says...
Ta Jujube...i was thinking about J having to prune them so much....

Time: 20th May 2010 12:59pm

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Kaye says...
Hi I have a white sapote about 5 years old about 4-5 metres high and 2 metres wide. Gets plenty of flowers but has not fruited. What am I doing wrong please? Can anyine help?

Time: 20th April 2011 4:57pm

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Phil@Tyalgum says...
Often white sapote trees don't self pollinate. If you know what variety it is try and get another which is a good pollinator, Ortego and Lemon Gold prob the best.
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Time: 20th April 2011 6:23pm

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Jason says...
Kaye are you able to take a close up of a flower? You can usually see the difference between the flowers that are female only and the pollinators. The picture Phil has posted you would be 99.999% certain is a fertile pollinator

Time: 20th April 2011 8:51pm

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Jason says...
http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/my/l/310/white-sapote-pike.jpg

http://toptropicals.com/pics/garden/2004/4/4916.jpg

If you compare it to those two above the first being Pike which isn't self fertile and a second unknown one which probably isn't either you can see the difference (fatter fruitlets and less pollen or no pollen on the female only types)

Time: 20th April 2011 8:56pm

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Tommoz says...
Is there any non-spreading, very upright white sapote besides Reinecke Commercial?

Time: 8th July 2015 11:16pm

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Rob19 says...
Does anyone have any information regarding Sheffler?

I've read it's more productive than Rainbow and has a coconut flavour. Has anyone seen it/tasted it or know of availability in Australia?


Time: 29th October 2015 9:49am

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Linton says...
Rare fruit grower dies in rural Victoria!

I was saddened to read that Adrian Thomas, the owner of the rare fruit and subtropical nursery at Glenlyon, passed away a bit over a month ago. I know that a few people on this forum used to visit Adrian and Marilyns property a few years ago, see posts above, and also, https://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/rowan-tree/

I think that Adrian was one of the pioneers to introduce new White Sapote cultivars into Victoria which led to them becoming more widely available in Melbourne so his passing is a great loss.

I would be interested to hear if anyone was in contact with them more recently, perhaps in the past year and how they had progressed with their venture. Thank you.

Time: 11th April 2017 11:16am

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Markmelb says...
Update on my Suebelle - first fruit fell into hand and tested ready with toothpick - was incredibly nice - no grittyness or skin bitterness like my Pike - mild sweet flavour not as strong as Pike/Pyke but my first taste recently of the first Hawaii Supreme was equally nice - maybe even sweeter more tropically tasting than Suebelle so will continue with HS now ive tasted it - may even graft HS to Reineke next spring if Reineke fails to flower again.Suebelle was definitely easy to eat with little aftertaste.
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Time: 21st April 2017 1:12pm

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Linton says...
Do your Kampongs have sand? On any other type?

Last year the Kampong fruits were gritty like there was grit in them. Yesterday one fell off from the new crop. It was more yellow in colour this time, so I ate it. There was no noticeable gritty sand this time, the flesh was soft and succulent and juicy and the flavour was pretty good.

The problem is, there are about 5 large seeds inside leaving very little room for pulp. So even with the excellent flavour and smoothness now, it's not really worth growing as there's hardly any flesh. So the next time someone eats a Kampong could you please concur if this is the case. Looking forward to your prognostication, cheers!
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Time: 11th May 2017 8:19pm

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ivepeters says...
Linton
Unfortunately your correct regarding large seeds and little meat leftover, same with mine.

Time: 12th May 2017 11:24am

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Linton says...
So this leaves me somewhat discombobulated as to whether to keep or not keep the Kampong tree.

As I have half a dozen other varieties I only want to keep the best ones so maybe should get rid of the Kampong which is taking up valuable space.

On the plus side, the Kampong does flower almost continuously and produces bountiful crops so it might be worth keeping as a pollinator only. Thank you.



Time: 16th May 2017 1:43pm

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ivepeters says...
Although, size might improve with age, hopefully someone can chime in with an old established tree. Mine is still only 1.5m tall, does produce a large amount of fruit for it's size. Like you said, might be valuable as an allround pollinator.

Time: 17th May 2017 11:27am

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Chad says...
Damn, I purchased a Kampong (my only white Zapote) lousy over a year ago from Daley's. I wish I has this information then.

Time: 18th May 2017 8:57pm

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ivepeters says...
Mine has started flowering again, will be removing most fruitlets & leaving only 6 to form fully, since only 1.5m tall, to see if it makes a difference in relation to end size.

Chad, can always graft a different variety onto it.

Time: 20th May 2017 12:39pm

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Rob19 says...
It will also be interesting to hear the results from those with a solitary WS, such as you Chad.

It may be that the cross pollination is generating a lot of seeds as happens with a number of mandarins.

Time: 22nd May 2017 9:46am

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Aaron Siemienow1 says...
I live in alb/wodonga and wish to plant a solitary sapote. But can plant 2 at the expense of not planting a cherimoya.
has anyone had any kampong that no not have large seeds, and a reasonable amount of meat on them?
Ideally I want to plant just 1, but if i plant 2, what are grest tasting variety that will crop reliably in the Victorian climate?
And does anyone know where to get them as dalys do not have any! :(

Time: 9th September 2017 7:20am

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Chad says...
I'll stick with it and see how it turns out. I had to pick off over a hundred flowers since I've had it for just over a year. I have to repot it, it's a quick grower

Time: 16th September 2017 5:18pm

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Markmelb says...
I planted 3 in a hole to save space if you look at my edible page - Suebelle is flowering now - had one tasty fruit last march - see pics above too.

Time: 17th September 2017 2:45pm

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Aaron Siemienow1 says...
Where can you get sue Belles? Cant seem to find them anywhere!

Time: 18th September 2017 9:51am

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Markmelb says...
It is around and BAAG nursery could have some in future - mines not ready yet to propagate from - trying to get some height as its a slower more compact grower and is self fertile also,

Time: 19th September 2017 8:18am

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Aaron Siemienow1 says...
I think I will plant a Ortega and a Lemon gold. Maybe a pike if one of the others is not available at the time.
Has anyone had any experience with Macs Golden?

Time: 26th September 2017 3:16pm

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Peter91 says...
I'm currently growing Mac's Golden Aaron, it hasn't flowered yet but grew to 1.5m+ in it's first year and seems extremely hardy, hoping for flowers this year.

If all goes well for me this year should have some Vernon, Golden Globe, Chris, Denzler, Ortega and Kampong fruits to report back about.

Hopefully Lemon Gold, Reneicke and Mac's Golden next year.



Time: 27th September 2017 1:26pm

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Aaron Siemienow1 says...
Peter, do you get frosts in your area? if so did you protect it in the winter?
good luck with the fruits this year! I think I will only plant 2 trees. and to be honest, I will probably plant whatever grafted variety's I can get my hands on. As I can never seem to find them.

Time: 28th September 2017 10:33am

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Peter91 says...
No frosts in my area Aaron, or rarely if that, it can get pretty cold some winters though. I don't protect my sapotes, yours will probably drop all their leaves first winter, but will make a full comeback next spring and climatize to your area becoming more hardy...It's pretty hard to kill a white sapote.

If Daleys have none i'd recommend contacting Perry's fruit and nut here and asking for a Vernon, as good quality fruit apparently and can be used as a pollinator.

Second variety i'd probably go for a Chris, Golden globe or lemon gold from Daleys.

Rainbow is good if you can manage to find one.

Time: 29th September 2017 9:02am

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Linton says...
Just wondering, how can you tell when the rainbows are ripe and ready to pick. Last year left them too long. Thank you.
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Time: 27th January 2020 4:25pm

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Fruitylicious1 says...
Hi Linton

I just harvested my kampong white sapote here in Wyndham Vale and it was perfectly ripe. I left it on the tree until it turned slightly yellow and monitored the softness test by hand. I picked the fruit when it was medium soft, not too soft or it will get mushy. Just like lightly squeezing a perfectly ripe avocado. Mine is a different cv from yours but they might have similarities with texure when the fruits are right to pick.

Time: 28th January 2020 8:25pm

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Original Post was last edited: 28th January 2020 8:25pm

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TAMWORTH,2340,NSW
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Peter91 says...
Linton, usually they become a yellowish colour or ripen rapidly off the tree to yellow in my experience.

Time: 28th January 2020 9:10pm

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NORTH PLYMPTON,5037,SA
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Linton says...
Thanks for your suggestions which I will try. I have also received a few other recommended techniques to determine ripeness. These were from other sources which are totally different so I will try all methods to see which works best. Cheers!

Time: 29th January 2020 9:31am

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NOBLE PARK,3174,VIC
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