capulin cherry (forum)

kert starts with ...
Whatever happened to the Capulins? None on offer at Daley's. Seems as if there are several terrific cultivars available in the U.S. that approximate the real cherry and have a very low chill requirement.

Time: 23rd June 2010 2:25pm

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sydney
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Rev says...
Only seedlings here it seems
youll just have to grow and select the good ones
i hear cuttings are easy, im yet to try it

ill have a batch of seedlings in september'ish


Time: 24th June 2010 2:18am

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kert says...
Where did you get the seed ,if I may ask?

Time: 24th June 2010 1:07pm

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Jason says...
I'd offer you seed next Summer but my tree is pretty much inedible. It's only good for bird food and making capulin weeds all around the place that need mowing. Big tree, good looking tree but that's about it :)

Time: 24th June 2010 1:29pm

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Rev says...
Hi Kert
i dont get seeds i just buy the seedlings from a guy i know who grows them.
I believe they are from Ecuadorian stocks

i want a grove of them, to select for good fruits , but also to grow for cherry wood for timber
and maybe for smoking meats and what not with

so Jason
you say yours is inedible. have you cooked the cherries?
have you noticed any pests or diseases on your trees?
where did your tree come from?

Thanks




Time: 26th June 2010 3:50am

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kert says...
Thanks,Rev. Would you be willing to share the name of your supplier? Ecuador is reputed to have the best tasting Capulins.

Time: 26th June 2010 9:10am

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Jason says...
Kert, mine come from Daleys. I haven't cooked them, but raw they are not very good, pretty nasty really. No problems with growing the tree, no pest, no disease. It doesn't need extra water or fertiliser (it will self seed and grow naturally here) and it's about... 20-30? feet tall after 9 years, it tends to grow about 4-5 feet a year but doesn't grow exactly straight up all the time.

I'm sure there are better versions around with better tasting fruit, esp in the selections either naturally selected seedlings or named from South America (I believe they are better there than in Mexico). But I live in prime prunus and Sweet Cherry growing country and when you have that option, you're never going to want to eat a capulin. If I was dying in the desert and hadn't eaten for days it might be great :) or if I lived in the tropics and were desperate to grow some kind of (any) prunus but it just doesn't taste real flash against the other temperate prunus that have had the bonus of thousands of years of human selection.

I still grow them, but just to give the birds something to eat, it would also make a good wind break

Time: 26th June 2010 4:37pm

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kert says...
What a pity they are so poor. Descriptions of c/v in the USA suggest we are missing out.

Time: 26th June 2010 7:55pm

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Jason says...
Yep, plenty of Americans tell me they taste good, they must have a lot better trees than I do. Either that or they are just all crazy. But other than the fruit it's a great tree!: )

Time: 26th June 2010 8:28pm

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amanda says...
My capulin struck from trees at Diggers club..no word on the taste/origin of fruit from their trees though...(mine not fruited yet)

Time: 27th June 2010 3:57pm

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Rev says...
same.
my trees are from trees grown from ecuadorian parents
no guarantees
teres also a seed source via mexico, but i hear ecuador is better

my plan is to plant at least a grove of 20 - and then cull
seems they strike easy by cuttings

even if one in 20 was good
ive got room for 100 trees, easy.
itd be an easy mass selection

Time: 30th June 2010 3:45am

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kert says...
If you use cuttings they will be identical to parent plant so no diversity. Will you share with us where you get seed/cuttings?

Time: 30th June 2010 9:12am

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amanda says...
Hi Rev - yours are from Diggers too? I stuck a piece in the ground when I was pruning - it lasted for a good month with no care at all (I was just curious) so I reckon your right.


Time: 30th June 2010 10:01am

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amanda says...
Is this a capulin flowering?

I know time will tell the story but I can't wait that long! :)

I didn't see these things on it last year - but it didn't defoliate last winter either.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2

Time: 15th September 2010 7:26pm

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Jason says...
Yes it is flowers :), close to opening too, once they get big, they put on a pretty impressive flower show. Mines maybe nearly 30 feet tall now and it just goes crazy with flowers. Mine defoliates for a few weeks just before it flowers, it's maybe 2 weeks behind where yours is at the moment but it's pushing out new growth and flowers pretty quickly right now

Time: 16th September 2010 2:14am

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amanda says...
Hooray! Thanks Jason. Fingers crossed I have a decent tasting fruit! Do they take long to get to the eating stage Jason?

Time: 16th September 2010 9:10am

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Jason says...
Nah not long, I cant remember exactly when since I don't eat them but it's very early Summer sometime

Time: 16th September 2010 11:54am

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Jason says...
My tree is catching up to this now. Did you get open flowers yet?

Time: 22nd September 2010 4:38am

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amanda says...
Not yet Jason...they are so close though. I am really excited so I hope the fruit on mine is good - it will be such a let down if it's as bad as the cedar bay cherry. My taste buds really don't like "resinous".... :-O

Time: 22nd September 2010 9:49am

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Jason says...
lol, it doesn't taste anything like those.
They are bitter/astringent. Capulin isn't like that, it's more like pine tree crossed with detergent plus a littttle touch of poison. It's a great specimen tree though :) and maybe you can develop a taste for it. I can eat it if I really want to, but I rather not, the fruit on my tree are 70% seed so that's not a lot of fun either

Time: 23rd September 2010 5:22am

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amanda says...
www...sounds bad Jason!

Time: 23rd September 2010 9:19am

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Jason says...
I just noticed today that a little self seeded Capulin (it has awesome weed potential) that decided to grow near one of my Ettinger Avocados is going to flower this year. So I'll get to see if there's enough variation in them to get a better tree (or worse one). The big one must be going to flower within a week now, I'll try and get a picture of it when it really gets flowering good, because it's 30 foot of white flowering awesome when it does :). But it's a bit stinky

Time: 23rd September 2010 4:26pm

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amanda says...
hey jason - flower burst 2day! Do proper cherries flower like this too? It's very pretty. Do bees like capulin flowers?
No dramas with it being a weed here..even my weeds are dying at present...

Time: 26th September 2010 8:48pm

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Jason says...
Yeah bees go for it, proper Cherrys are better maybe.. or maybe just different. If you get a specific flowering variety they are pretty spectacular, we have one in the centre of the round about but I think the crab apple tree beats all the prunus for flower, it's loaded with millions of pink flowers right now, really really impressive tree.

People go to Japan just to see and follow the Cherry blossoms across the country, I saw a documentary about that once.

But most of the Prunus are impressive when flowering, Apricots go pretty good too etc.

So they all flower nicely, there's also another prunus my mum has that's some kind of famous thing for it's flowers, she already had it before I got a capulin, the funny thing is, it's almost identical in the way it flowers and looks as Capulin but has serrated leaves and no proper fruit (and has less flowers!:P ) so you may as well have a capulin instead of that one.

My big capulin still hasn't flowered yet but should be going within a week. The smaller one that's flowering for the first time is at maybe 2 weeks away. When the big one is fully flowering I'll get a picture of it so you can see since it's a pretty big tree. I read some story once about some kind of special flowering prunus in North Korea once at or near the presidents palace but I can't remember now but here's a picture of Cherry blossom in South Korea

http://images.travelpod.com/users/shru24/1.1240405320.seoul-grand-park-cherry-blossom.jpg




Time: 26th September 2010 10:36pm

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amanda says...
Hey Jason - no - I meant the flowers hanging in "raecemes"? (is that what they are called when they hang in a long bunch like that?)
I have flowering stone fruit (apricot, peach etc)- but they don't flower like this at all. These remind me of macadamia flowers etc?

Time: 26th September 2010 11:44pm

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Jason says...
Oh yeah only the one I mentioned that my mum has also does that, I guess those two aren't the only ones, but they are the only two that I've seen with that set up :)

Time: 26th September 2010 11:59pm

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Jason says...
I've got bad news about my big capulin! it's got some kind of fungus and is starting to die back all over the place, it's a bit too big to spray so I'm just going to leave it alone and see if it makes a comeback once the weather gets less "fungusy" but I'm going to loose most of the flowers and new growth it seems. Maybe it will re flower in summer, sometimes when it's grow really well it attempts to do that but it's never died back in Spring like this before.

I have been having more trouble with my apricots and more leaf curl than usual though so I think it's just bad weather conditions this year.

Good news to make up for that today is that I found FOUR flower stalks on one of my Macadamia trees, so that's the first Macadamia flowers for me and I think for this city/area too

Time: 27th September 2010 1:07pm

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amanda says...
Hey Jason - I see what u mean by the smell of the flowers.. a bit like stinky feet or rotten meat? Glad I didn't plant it near the house!
sorry to hear about your tree - seems we are all being affected by one or another malady this spring.

Time: 27th September 2010 7:35pm

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Jason says...
We have some warm weather coming this weekend I hope that will sort out some of the current issues :), but it's been almost endless drizzle and cold for a long time now.

Don't know about stinky feet or rotten meat but it's not really a good smell anyway. I guess it's made for flys and other flying things that like stinky things



Time: 27th September 2010 10:01pm

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amanda says...
Well, the bush flies like the flowers Jason! :) and there are now 1000's of these around with these bloody easterlies :(

Time: 29th September 2010 9:57am

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amanda says...
Sadly - I don't appear to have fruit set Jason ... any ideas?

Time: 6th October 2010 4:37pm

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Jason says...
No ideas yet, have all the flowers dropped off already? mine tends to set something like 3? fruit per cluster of flowers. The fungus die back on my big tree seems to have done all it was going to do, made the tree messy with dead branches all around the place but it's still powering onwards regardless. The smaller one that self seeded itself is going to flower quite a bit so if that ones any good I can send you a bit of it to graft to yours, maybe that'll help pollinate it

Time: 6th October 2010 5:45pm

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amanda says...
Hey Jason - in desperation I have tried hand pollinating and also using a some flowers off my plum tree (doubt that will work but u never know!?)

I was hoping it would be a good capulin and I could grow some more from seed (to take with us) as I haven't had any luck with cuttings so far :(

Time: 7th October 2010 11:45am

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Joe A Friend says...
Capulins; what went wrong; BEES are the issue, they are not going to the flowers, and it seems sure that the smell of the flowers is 'the issue'; repelling the bees means that fruit-set in Australian conditions is abysmal-to-negligible; hence the lack of interest in this cherry-species! No doubt, in Peru where crops are great/productive, there is a native pollinator that likes the 'indigenous scent' of this strong smelling tree!(A single tree has been growing here for almost 20 yrs, but zero-cropping)@ Maldon,Central Victoria.

Time: 28th October 2010 9:34pm

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Jason says...
Really? I always get massive fruit set here in Victoria. I don't have many bees here any more but plenty of other bugs. I counted about 10 random different flies and bugs and such on my avocados the other day, the major pollinator of my avocados is the native hover bee but there's also flys and beetles on them (and moths and other stuff at night). But I do have the garden only a few meters from native bush. Tomorrow I'll have a look and see what's in the Capulin flowers, take some macro pictures of them maybe?

Time: 29th October 2010 12:29am

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amanda says...
Ah - that's interesting Jo A Friend - that might explain my problems. There are little fruit forming on my tree now but the vast majority are dropping off. I have upped the water as a last resort. But they may be sterile?

Only the ants seem interested in mine. I have loads of bees - but they don't like these flowers (or the Lychee and the white sapote flowers..)

We need to spray the tree with bee pheromones!? :)))

Time: 29th October 2010 10:18am

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Jason says...
I didn't get out to the garden until late in the afternoon/early night but I did see millions of those little tiny flys like the ones that get on over ripe fruit in your house all over it. Still need to have a look in the day time :). But I bet the native hover bees go for them, they like sapotes too (and Avocados). I have a video I need to upload sometime of the hover bees going crazy on an Avocado. They do a much better job than actual real bees

Time: 29th October 2010 9:51pm

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elaine says...
your pics of the flower racemes are totally different to my young capulin which flowered for the first time a few weeks ago, also mine doesn't have those small leaf edge serrations! The flowers were a very fine 6cm raceme with tiny little white flowers about the size of elderflowers. It came from Dayleys and am now wondering about these differences??

Time: 29th October 2010 10:46pm

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amanda says...
Hi elaine, I see in Susanna Lyles book that she states the flowers 2cm diameter also!? Could be a typo error - but mine tiny (and smelly)
Must be varietal differences?

Hey Jason - I think these one's may be going to hang in there....? We have 30knot plus winds every day now so it's fingers crossed..

Time: 30th October 2010 10:04am

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amanda says...
Oops - forgot the photo for above post...
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 30th October 2010 10:05am

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Jason says...
Hi Amanda, yep those should stay on. Why are you whinging about it not pollinating that flower stem seems to have near 100% pollination :)

Time: 30th October 2010 12:04pm

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amanda says...
He he JASON - yea but that only happened on the last half dozen raecemes just recently - the other 50+ had zero %..?

Maybe I didn't have the right bugs at the right time - we had a bush fly plague recently...maybe that helped as they like the flowers...?

Time: 30th October 2010 1:02pm

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Jason says...
Maybe, lets just hope you like how it tastes and get to taste it before some half crazy parrot eats them all :)

Time: 30th October 2010 7:31pm

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amanda says...
Joe A Friend - maybe you should hang some smelly meat in that tree and see if the bush flies do the job? It would be a really interesting experiment!? (could be "ground-breaking" even!??)

Thanks Jason - I will post the result when I get a taste - I am not expecting much so as not to be too dissapointed. :)

Time: 30th October 2010 10:46pm

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amanda says...
Hey Jason/Rev - I have a whole 5 fruit hanging on my tree! Now to keep the mice etc from them - so I can plant the seeds. Do u know if there is anything special I might need to do with them first? thanks :)

EDIT: just found this:

Propagation
Seed - requires 2 - 3 months cold stratification and is best sown in a cold frame as soon as it is ripe[200]. Sow stored seed in a cold frame as early in the year as possible[200]. Protect the seed from mice etc. The seed can be rather slow, sometimes taking 18 months to germinate[113]. Prick out the seedlings into individual pots when they are large enough to handle. Grow them on in a greenhouse or cold frame for their first winter and plant them out in late spring or early summer of the following year. Cuttings of half-ripe wood with a heel, July/August in a frame[11, 200]. Softwood cuttings from strongly growing plants in spring to early summer in a frame[200]. Layering in spring.


Not much information around on them. Some say the flower is 2cm!? Mine are more like 5mm???

Time: 25th November 2010 11:50pm

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amanda says...
I am not sure if this is normal? These are my nearly 2month old capulin fruits and they are not growing, ripening or anything??
My plums, peaches and nectarines have been and gone - but these guys are just hanging on the tree not doing much. They have had food n water etc... do they normally take ages to ripen? Thanks :)
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 13th December 2010 8:33pm

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Joe Friend says...
It could be(fruits not ripening!) that the critical Temp' deg-C has not been reached, OR they did in-fact not be-fertilised-due to that which I claim is @ Maldon(Vic.)-a complete(obs.) lack of pollinators - but 'why only in that region'?
CARE, Cheers+Seasons Greetings! Joe
Agroecologist & AUTHOR
www.camphorlaurel.com!

Time: 21st December 2010 7:38am

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amanda says...
Thanks Joe Friend - I have no idea but I will cut one open after the holidays and have a look. It's very stange - they are still the same - I suspect dodgy pollination too - but I would have thought the tree would drop the fruit by now.

Time: 21st December 2010 10:51am

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amanda says...
Hi Tom, that was interseting info on "capulins" from over there! Are the fruits of your Tropic cherry/Panama cherry well received/liked - or are they a bit so-so and ignored?

My fruit (last pic above) never devoloped any further than that - they went a bit red and only recently dropped off. I wasn't game to try one ;-)

There seems to be a large variation in the size of the flowers (as listed in the texts).

Thanks for finding that out - I will have a look at the link (hands full with a new puppy at present - arrgg!!)

Thanks for your kind words also...it's nice that you pop into our forum all the way over here and share.


Cut n paste of original post:

By the way, Amanda, I finally figured out why (I thought that) we don't have Capulin Cherry tees here (Prunus salicifolia - remember?). It's because what we call Strawberry Tree (Muntingia calabura) also shares the name Capulin in areas where lots of people speak Spanish (like here). So the prunus species is sold here more commonly by the name Tropic Cherry or Panama Berry; and those we have in abundance.

Thanks to good ol' Julia F. Morton (Fruits of Warm Climates) and the keen folks at the U of Florida for helping me on this one.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/jamaica_cherry.html



Time: 4th February 2011 1:28pm

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Tom says...
We don't have one ourselves, but I've read conflicting blogs on them. Some folks say they're tasteless and others like them. Opinions are varied. Congrats on the new pup! Did y'all ever make your move to a new house?

Time: 4th February 2011 1:50pm

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Jason says...
My big capulin tree recovered from the brow rot type stuff it got in spring and put on it's usual 6 foot+ of new growth since then but there's only a few fruit on it since it just re-flowered a little bit after all the die back on the new growth and original set of flowers. I'd still never plant another one unless it was for a windbreak or especially to feed the birds. They just aren't a good enough fruit when you can grow a real cherry or a Fig if your climate is too warm for a real cherry :). So it's hard to see a point in capulins for Human food, unless you like eating pine tree bark

Time: 4th February 2011 3:11pm

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About the Author Jason
Portland
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amanda says...
My turn Brendan! I agree Jason - this is one of my remaining fruits...eek! Hardly worth the effort?
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 5th February 2011 2:24pm

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About the Author amanda19
Gerladton. Mid West WA
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Brendan says...
Did it taste like 'pine bark' Amanda? :-)

Time: 6th February 2011 8:19am

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About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
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Jason says...
lol I haven't even eaten pine bark myself but it's supposed to be a good staple food if you get hungry enough, so that's worth remembering :D

Time: 6th February 2011 2:23pm

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About the Author Jason
Portland
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amanda says...
Ok Brendan and Jason - I tasted, it just for you...Jason mentioned "poisonous" once b4...I am with u there! Yukk. :(((

Time: 6th February 2011 5:17pm

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About the Author amanda19
Gerladton. Mid West WA
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Grant says...
Amanda, I have to say at times I have agreed with the "poisonous" description... but I have found that it tastes much better if you let it ripen to the point it is almost black. Tends to sweeten up a little.

Time: 7th February 2011 9:51am

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Jason says...
Sweet poison :P

Time: 7th February 2011 4:25pm

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About the Author Jason
Portland
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amanda says...
I'll pass I think! :( So sad - was looking forward to testing them. Jason - are the branches of your tree sort of horizonatal too? I'm still not convinced I have the right tree...

I am really starting to come around to a well grown fig these days Jason...when we move I am going to try out the Genoa's ... saw the fruit at shops for $1.65 EACH!!
It's a verstatile fruit for eating and cooking (sweet or savoury) and mine very trouble free. Thumbs up!

Time: 7th February 2011 7:58pm

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About the Author amanda19
Gerladton. Mid West WA
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wzis says...
My tree got lots of flowers this year, but none of them becomes fruits. Anybody know why?

Time: 12th October 2018 2:21pm

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About the Author wzis
Epping
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