Causes of mulberry dwarfing (forum)

Duane H starts with ...
Hello
New participant.

My interest is how dwarfing is achieved in the dwarf black mulberry. The plant description refers to dwarfing rootstock, but then I believe I saw reference to R. alba rootstock being used. I am wondering about the identity of the rootstock.

Also, there is considerable scientific literature on the web that says mulberry dwarfing can be caused by phytoplama infection. Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks
Duane

Time: 7th April 2009 1:59am

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Monty Burns says...
its the scion.

Time: 8th April 2009 5:55pm

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Mark says...
Simplest way... Is to get a basic book on 'Bonsai'. Just follow the instructions given in the book. This way,, You will have the choice of creating a tiny Bonsaied Mulberry in a pot,or of creating a dwarfed mulberry using bonsai techniques without going so far. Of course, if you want to limit the spread of the roots,you will have to grow it in a pot & trim roots by a third every few years. Well, that's what I'd do. But then, I like doing Bonsai's!

Time: 8th April 2009 7:05pm

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Firefly says...
Duane, my Dwarf Red Shahtoot Mulberry (bought from Daleys) is labelled as having Morus alba rootstock. Don't know how well it works as I've only had the plant a few months and it's growing in a pot anyway.

Time: 8th April 2009 7:24pm

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Mark says...
Firefly,, If you are growing a Dwarf Mulberry anyway,it Wiil be a Dwarf won't it? Of course. I thought the question was on how to 'create' a dwarf.(of course,I could be wrong.)

Time: 15th April 2009 4:55pm

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Mark says...
Monty, is your comment saying that the dwarfing infection IS the scion? You really explain Nothing. Oh well, as long as the questioner understands you. Buggered if I do!

Time: 15th April 2009 4:57pm

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Firefly says...
Mark, dwarf fruit trees use the same scion material as standard size plants. These scions are grafted onto rootstock that will not grow as large as rootstock used for standard size plants.

The end result is a smaller root system which can only support a smaller tree. The fruit, of course, will be the same size as on a standard plant.

My tree will be dwarfed anyway since I am growing it in a pot and creating a smaller root system this way.

Time: 15th April 2009 7:31pm

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Mark says...
Firefly, For once We Agree! My comments about using 'Bonsai techniques'to dwarf a fruit tree,were only meant as the method which I personally would use,& also as an alternative to the methods I was sure everyone else would give. > (because I like doing Bonsai.) > > The tree You are growing,is using some of those same techniques used in Bonsai. ie; smaller growing space=smaller root systen=smaller tree! (You're not going to argue about that too I hope.)

Time: 19th April 2009 12:08am

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Julie says...
I recommend anyone interested in dwarfing trees to read 'Growing Trees in Bags'on the Daleys site.

Daleys were selling some of these Bonsai bags a while ago. The composition of the bags means they automatically dwarf the tree - no need to trim the roots.The bags actually stop the roots growing beyond a certain point.

Time: 19th April 2009 5:31pm

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Mark says...
Oh,Julie, Surely you're not going to fall for that old gag! (I did once.) Here's a FACT you can look up "ANYWHERE!" 'There is no such thing as what you just said Julie.' ,,, OK, so there are bags & products around to 'assist in' the dwarfing process. BUT, Regardless of the product or who puts it out, it is NOT POSSSIBLE to make a bonsai just by planting it in a bag!! Bonsai's are created in one of two ways. .. 1/ By Nature. 2/ By People,who take the time & care & effort to Train a plant to grow to only a small size in a Bonsai Pot/Tray. Root pruning is not the Only thing needed to Dwarf a tree! Plant your tree in one of those bags,& just leave it for 10 or 15 years. You will end up with a Large Tree in a bag,either rootbound Or with roots too small for it's size! ... It reminds me of those seed packets in stores everywhere. They are called Bonsai Seeds. .... Perhaps those bags really do Help.But that is All they would do.

Time: 23rd April 2009 7:27pm

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Julie says...
Mark, have you actually read the whole article? A New Zealand orchardist grows all his cherries in these bags. And I am growing normal fruit trees in them.

The article includes a scientific explanation for how they work. I'm happy with them.

I don't mind disagreement on this site - it's inevitable - but do you have to be so rude about it?



Time: 23rd April 2009 8:44pm

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Kath says...
Julie, I too have been on the receiving end of Mark's tongue-aren't we lucky he's in the East-the nullabor should keep us safe!! Like you, I think debate is great-rudeness isn't. Apparently I'm unintelligent-check the cherry substitute from Perth spiel-I'm not actually sure he read my original query as he sure didn't offer any substitute cherrys & he's not from Perth! Happy gardening in Roleystone!!

Time: 23rd April 2009 9:41pm

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Julie says...
Why was my post to Mark deleted? It stayed long enough for him to reply, but has now gone. Weird!

Time: 3rd May 2009 8:37pm

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May says...
Julie, It was probably deleted by someone who didn't like you disagreeing with him- like John said, this is a great forum-if someone is rude to you-delete it so that it doesn't turn into a slanging match or people correcting people's spelling mistakes-how petty! Who cares if something is spelt wrong?-it's a gardening site!! Don't let rude people put you off sharing your knowledge & questions-you're always going to get rude people on forums- just delete/ignore them and we can get back to gardening topics which is why we're on here.




Time: 4th May 2009 9:54am

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Julie says...
This is a most unusual forum if you can delete from the site. I could wipe out anybody's comments!

I would prefer to see a system , like most forums, where a moderator removes rude or offensive posts. More work for someone, I suppose.

Time: 4th May 2009 6:42pm

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Mark says...
Hi Julie. Well I, (Mark), was not the one who deleted your post. I didn't even know that we could all remove each others posts! I Agree with you that this is a Weird forum-system. .... Just between you,me,& everyone else who reads this,I even forget what it was all about, but Yes, I Did get to read your post. I didn't reply simply because by that time I was sick of replying to 1 reply after another. ..... Why don't you put it Back On & see what happens!? ,, Kindest Regards,, Mark.

Time: 14th May 2009 7:23pm

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amanda says...
On the issues of dwarfing... the italians practice root pruning (in-situ) with a shovel - has anyone tried this? Does it keep trees smaller?

Time: 17th May 2009 7:28pm

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Correy says...
Anyone can delete a comment but it will only remain deleted for a couple of days before it re-appears unless it is a really good reason.

Time: 1st June 2009 9:39am

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Mark says...
Amanda, Re what you said about Root Pruning trees with a shovel:: Yes, it Does work. I haven't done it myself, but I remember my Granddad doing this when I was just a kid. ... If you're interested, the trees he pruned this way were Azalea,Rose,& Willow. There may have been others but these I do remember. I recall that a degree of caution is required in pruning this way. (in other words you can't just hack off everything & expect a tree to live.) .... If you are thinking of Trying this method but are not sure about it,,, "Why not try it on a Council Tree?" :-)

Time: 1st June 2009 6:42pm

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Mark says...
Correy,,,, Well, why not DELETE THIS posting of Mine, then we can all see it disappear & See how long it takes to Return!

Time: 1st June 2009 6:45pm

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amanda says...
Mark..I appreciate your sense of humour...quite naughty! :) but i have 30 acres of wild things to practice on -and space aplenty so no need for me to be a vandal ..it is an interesting skill from ages gone-by however - probably yet another that we will lose in the rapid pace of modern life.

Time: 1st June 2009 10:19pm

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Mark says...
Amanda... I think you gave me more credit than I deserve on that one. True,my humour usually does take that form that you read,but this time I was being quite Serious! I don't like Council attitudes & it would amuse me no end to think that someone 'practiced' their root pruning on council trees,especially if those dear trees died as a result. Councils all need a good swift kick in the pants! (maybe I should get onto ours? that'd stir up the ant colony! ...:-D )

Time: 9th July 2009 7:19pm

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amanda says...
Well Mark - have to admit mine are quite negligent (Council) - many of my invasive weeds start off from the road reserves around my block...when u try to point it out u get a bureaucratic handball that even Ben Cousins would b envious of...
It would b nice to see them plant something useful tho' I must admit.

Time: 9th July 2009 10:20pm

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