Fino cherimoya (forum)

kert starts with ...
Ho Hum, Treegrowers.com has put back the availability of its Fino de Jete cherimoya to April 2011 ;seems to be as reliable as a Qantas A380. Does anyone know of another source for this particular variety. Birdwood no longer does cherimoya.

Time: 10th November 2010 9:26am

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allybanana says...
Daleys list it

Time: 10th November 2010 8:41pm

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kert says...
Yes they do . But it is as much in evidence as unicorns.

Time: 11th November 2010 9:25am

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allybanana says...
I am a beliver, Monodon monoceros



Time: 11th November 2010 9:50am

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allybanana says...
Actually kert it may be even longer, next spring. I am doing a Bulk order with treegrowers, organising a buy with a dozen or so locals as the nursury only sends bulk orders. Having a lot of people involved also brings freight down. They are grafting Now, Fino de jet, and a small amount of Peirce and Bays, anyone really keen on these varieties i could get another couple for trade, i am looking for asimina wood for grafting from improved varieties, Tropical apple, sweet or anna wood. Hiakomo perssimon. Winter scions are okay.

Time: 7th January 2011 12:05am

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kert says...
Do I understand correctly- Pierce and Bays are being produced by Treegrowers? Do you know if they will have sufficient for other purchasers(namely,me)?

Time: 7th January 2011 9:57am

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J says...
Yes they are producing those varieties, I have an order with them for about ten trees as well. If they push back the dates again I may cancel my order. Daleys have fino de jete back in production. That's what the lady on the phone told me.

Time: 7th January 2011 11:07am

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Violet_Cactus says...
Yes they do have it back in production, because recently I sent them a big bundle of grafting material from my Fina de Jete tree. (Which I originally bought from Daleys)

Time: 7th January 2011 5:32pm

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peter says...
i had also spoken to tree growers a
couple of months ago about buying
their minimum order of 30 trees.
was told the same thing back then about
the date possibly going out to sept.
same thing happened last year.


Time: 7th January 2011 6:14pm

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Jantina says...
Nice to see you back on the forum peter.

Time: 7th January 2011 10:49pm

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allybanana says...
Peter people did get last years orders last spring didnt they? or did they get pushed back even further to next spring?

Spring is best for us as many peple are getting avocardos for frosty areas and it would be a bit mean to take the trees from north NSW to transplant just before winter

Time: 8th January 2011 1:14am

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peter says...
hi jantina, allybanana
i was refering to cherimoya so dont
know about avacardos.
might ring them on monday and see
what they say.

Time: 8th January 2011 9:12am

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J says...
violet, that's good to hear! I was wondering where they got the grafting material from, because the last time I spoke to daleys about fino de jete they said it was atleast two years away. Good work.
Has anybody had any experience with the "SOFIA" variety daleys have listed? I was wondering if it's an early or late season bearer.

Time: 8th January 2011 1:19pm

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John Mc says...
Fino de Jete is starting to come through, I just bought two from Daleys today.
Lost one "white" within a month of planting out recently and looks like Im about to loose a sofia. On both ocasions while carefully removing the pot the potting mix fell apart in my hands taking some delicate roots with it. The other white and sofia are going great guns.

Time: 25th February 2011 10:47pm

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Violet_Cactus says...
Glad the Fina de Jetes are starting to appear for sale. My tree's offspring will soon be spread around the country.


Time: 26th February 2011 9:25am

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fruitist says...
Last August, I cut down a huge grafted Fina de Jete. I did know that the cultivar was getting scarse as source for scions. Anyway it was planted close to my house and the trunk was buttressing and seeing all the huge trees with buttresses in the tropics, I decided to cut it down. I smeared the cut with diluted Zero but that hasn't killed it. Some shoots are now coming out above the graft joint so I may save them for my own grafting.

Time: 26th February 2011 9:54am

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Jason says...
I have a fino de jete that's big enough to supply scions too, just for the record in case someone is looking next grafting season. I did have quite a few seed from it in a bag still a couple months ago also but my wife lost them :S. Lucky I planted threw of them before that happened because I had been meaning to grow out some fino seedlings for year and years now. All three are up and away

Time: 26th February 2011 12:14pm

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kert says...
Can you outline your grafting technique? I understand that it is only when the scion is in active growth ie spring that one is successful..

Time: 26th February 2011 1:49pm

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fruitist says...
I think I will let grafting experts describe their skills/experience especialLY On Annona species. My experience is confined to bud patch grafting on rubber trees when I was about 10 years old many decades ago when I did graft a few successfully.

Time: 26th February 2011 1:58pm

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Jason says...
I wasn't to be able to graft Cherimoya until recently. But I seem to have it figured out now. You need the rootstock to be in active grow I need to wait until it's well and truly growing here, say in early December and I need a scion that's pretty much just past bud swell ( just starting to shoot into leaves from the buds). I figure keeping your scion in the fridge once it reaches that stage would be the best, OR graft a bit later in the Summer with a scion you have prepared on the tree by cutting the leaves off a piece that's hardend up already, then waiting for the new bud swell. I've been grafting with a very thin stretchy tape I got on ebay from NZ over the join and then and medical parafilm over the entire scion lately and that's given me 100% take on everything I've grafted this season. So maybe it's just the tape that's helped me this year rather than the timing. Previously grafting Cherimoyas in Spring with normal tape I had no success at all but still had decent success on Avocados etc

Time: 26th February 2011 3:20pm

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kert says...
What ia the graft? Wedge or bark graft or something else? Thanks.

Time: 26th February 2011 3:45pm

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Jason says...
Depends what I feel like will fit the best at the moment but I get about the same success with either whip, whip and tongue. I'd wedge graft sapotes ok because its such an easy graft to cut and they heal so well and it's a good graft if you are doing it commercially and don't care how well the tree grows once it's sold but I think the whips are a better graft if it's something tricky just because there's no exposed ends. I don't do bud or patch grafting or anything like that at all unless it's to repair a damaged tree that has no bark left for sap flow. So usually just a scion pencil thick that's hardened wood and 4 inches long? would be the normal wood I'd use on anything.

Time: 26th February 2011 5:05pm

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kert says...
You know there is a way to cut the wedge graft so there are no exposed ends of the wedge?

Time: 27th February 2011 9:06am

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Jason says...
You mean put like shoulders on it? but then it's more complex than a whip and tongue which I think is the best graft. Good for holding everything together while you tie it when you are not a pro

Time: 27th February 2011 9:40am

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kert says...
What I meant is instead of just splitting the root stock to take the wedge of scion you cut twice towards the trunk (that's the best description I can come up with)so that you end up with a V shaped defect in the root stock to be filled by the V shaped wedge of the scion ;hence no exposed surfaces.
As regrds the whip and tongue a refinement is to make the cut for the tongue in a different point along the sloping "whip" ,say,half way along the scion and a third way along the root stock. The resulting fit is more accurate and less exposed cambium is left.

Time: 27th February 2011 4:05pm

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Jason says...
Ah I see, no I haven't tried that kind of double cut wedge. When I cut the whip and tongue I do the whip alone on both scion and rootstock first then cut the tongue in the rootstock where I want it, then eyeball the 'depth' of the tongue against the scion so I can see where to start the cut on that. Then I can get them to line up 100% perfect on each end once it's slotted in

Time: 27th February 2011 5:26pm

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kert says...
Yes, that sounds right . But most books give out the idea that the "tongue" should be cut in identical parts of the scion and rootstock usually stated as the middle which ,if followed, results in overlaps protruding at both ends.

Time: 27th February 2011 6:09pm

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kert says...
Treegrowers has delayed it again . No Fino cherimoyas this year -too much rain or was it sunspot activity. Luckily Daley's seems to have it now.

Time: 27th February 2011 6:12pm

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Jason says...
For you guys that haven't tasted Fino, It's well worth having. Might not be the best Cherimoya ever but it's pretty close to it and reasonably easy to get here in Australia so if you were going to get one it's probably the one to have. It's 100's of times better than "White" anyway (unless you prefer Atemoya's less flavoursome and more sugary taste, then you might like White)

Time: 27th February 2011 8:44pm

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micarle says...
Jason, What other Cherimoya CVs are around?? I have the 3 Available from Daley's (Sofia, Fino de Jite, White) but can't find any others??

Time: 27th February 2011 8:52pm

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Jason says...
I don't have others apart from seedlings but I have seen in Australia in the past a lot of the good ones. Next time I find my old Birdwood catalouge I'll type it out but pretty sure they use to do Spain, Pierce (this is one I always wanted and would certainly buy if I saw it for sale again), Bays? and most of the other good Californian selections I'm sure they are or were all in Australia, it's just a matter of finding them. Also you used to be able to get Southern Nights?, that's the one Glowinski has in his front yard but I haven't seen that around for a while

Time: 27th February 2011 9:58pm

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kert says...
Birdwood seems to have given up on cherimoyas entirely. They had lots of terrific ones including some of the best rated ones . At the time I had no idea how good they were . It does not seem to make much sense to abandom something that is in high demand.

Time: 28th February 2011 8:57am

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micarle says...
Hmm, Thanks Jason, i'd like to get a few of these cvs!! Have to keep my eye out, i have a few seedling Cherimoya's around the 30cm mite do some grafts

Time: 28th February 2011 10:07am

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Jason says...
The problem with Cherimoyas in Australia is the "Custard apple" growers or the union that controls that fruit. They don't like Cherimoyas and don't encourage the name or that fruit. I wouldn't either if I was them because it would be the end of that little industry if people around Sydneys kind of latitude started commercial Cherimoya growing.

How many times have you had to describe your Cherimoya and go well.. err it's like a Custard apple.. but much better and they all think... ewww and thats the end of their Cherimoya obsession that never quite happened :P.

I hope someone can find trees of the varieties Birdwood used to sell because it was most of the very best ones, I don't think there was really anything important missing from their collection

Time: 28th February 2011 2:59pm

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kert says...
There is a new manager at Birdwood. Maybe it's worth a try to induce him to bring cherimoyas back. I'd be willing to offer my sister for some of those they used to have.

Time: 1st March 2011 9:12am

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micarle says...
Yeah i'm heaps keen for those mentioned cvs!!!

Time: 1st March 2011 9:54am

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kert says...
Micarle, do you know how to graft cherimoyas? I have had zero takes but have lots of seedlings.

Time: 1st March 2011 10:22am

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J says...
Well daleys had 5 fino de jete for sale in early feb and I got 4 of em (Thanks violet!) (along with 3 of the sofia variety). The fino's don't seem particularily happy after the drive down from daleys to melbourne. Their leaves are all droopy (compared to the sofia's and the southern knight I have). I've watered them frequently but I'm unsure if the delivery down knocked them for a six or if they are just taking time to get climatised to melbourne weather OR if that variety simply have droopier leaves than other varieties. Either way I'll be keeping the finos & sofias in a Greenhouse until spring then I'll put em in the ground. The southern knight has been growing in the ground since october 2010, so we'll see how he goes in winter without protection. You can get Southern Knight from perrys. You need to pre-order.

Give these trees a couple of years and I'll be happy to provide grafting material to those who need it.

Time: 1st March 2011 1:11pm

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Jason says...
J, most of the plants I bought from Daleys will actually drop their leaves completely once brought to Victoria. NSW leaves just aren't adapted to the climate here. Going through all that change in climate slows them up for a while but they come good eventually

Time: 1st March 2011 1:22pm

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J says...
Yeah Jason, I hear ya but the Sofia's I got from daleys are doing much much better than the fino's (infact they are busy sprouting new growth) and they got transplanted into bigger pots too. So I'm just wondering if the fino's are more finicky trees. Either way, I'll protect them this winter just incase.

I have yet to cancel my treegrowers order of Fino's but I have a feeling they will delay the order again anyway.

Time: 1st March 2011 1:37pm

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Jason says...
Yep, maybe Sofia is a tougher plant overall. I hadn't even heard of that one until recently, do you know where it came from?, where it was selected?. I've even moves my fino from one place to another after a couple years so it's pretty tough. Well not going to die on you anyway

Time: 1st March 2011 1:41pm

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J says...
The only info I've got on sofia comes from daleys "A prolific fruiting selection with white flesh that is sweet and rich with a smooth, custardy vanilla flavour. Has performed exceedingly well in Adelaide SA. Originating in Quito, Ecuador."

Before I bought em, I checked on Quito, ecuador. Seems like they have cool weather at times. I'm assuming if Sofia does well in Adelaide it should do well here. I'm just hoping the fruit tastes good (and not like WHITE supposedly does in VIC). I tried to find out from daleys if Sofia was an early or late season bearer but they didn't seem to know. So I just took a gamble on it.



Time: 1st March 2011 1:46pm

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Jason says...
White doesn't even ripen all the way here for me most of the time and give's me immature seeds most years, that's how far off full development it can be, some years I've had fully developed fruit but it really lacks flavour.. Fino matures the fruit all the way *Just* but doesn't taste anywhere near as good as it would in a bit warmer place. But it is still heaps better than White and good enough to be worth growing. I'm trying to get my Cherimoya trees into a much stronger state of health, bigger leaves and more of them etc, to see if I can speed up the fruit maturing, I've been able to do it with figs so we will see what happens

Time: 1st March 2011 2:23pm

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J says...
Hmm, sounds like sofia will be touch and go! Fingers crossed. Thanks again (and again) for all the great info, jason.

Time: 1st March 2011 2:55pm

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kert says...
Do you know that Anonnacae generally like a dose of foliar Zinc yearly?

Time: 1st March 2011 3:19pm

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J says...
No I did not know that, kert. Thanks for the info. I've been giving my southern knight "miracle grow" which is mixed into water. I make sure the plant gets nicely drenched as it as I water the soluble fertiliser into the ground.

Time: 1st March 2011 3:25pm

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Jason says...
Kert I'm sure I have several nutrient problems with my Cherimoya's but I'm working on it. I'll add Zinc to the testing list. So far I have some leaves on my White trees which is the test case of about 25cm x 15cm that's much better than usual for me so I'm just adding nitrogen constantly to hold that size leaf. I think that's about the right size for a healthy tree but I still need the branches to be growing more than they do.

I've never been able to get my Cherimoyas to have that classic ball shape they get when the new grow grows so fast that it hangs down, mine just look like normal upright trees

Time: 1st March 2011 4:11pm

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John Mc says...
Green grafting of Annona.
Graft either in spring with greygreen
mature wood of the previous season
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3
Picture: 4

Time: 1st March 2011 4:12pm

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kert says...
Thanks.

Time: 1st March 2011 5:03pm

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Jason says...
Is that the CSIRO book? I have that somewhere, it's worth getting if you can find it

Time: 1st March 2011 7:00pm

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kert says...
My impression is that the CSIRO advice works mainly if you have a controlled atmosphere where temp and humidity are maintained . I have had little success with their methods.

Time: 2nd March 2011 10:15am

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John Mc says...
I think this one is from the CSIRO
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 2nd March 2011 11:05am

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kert says...
Yes, I believe it is the second edition.
Here is an extract from Birdwood Nursery's catalogue 1998 :Cherimoyas available FINO,SPAIN,BALWIN,BURTONS,BURTONS FAVOURITE,WHITE ,DELICIOSA ,BAYS MOSSMAN,CAMPA,RERETAI,BRONCEADA,ANDREWS,CONTRA,EQUADOR,EL BUMPO LIBBY,ANDERSON others on application.

Time: 2nd March 2011 1:30pm

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Jason says...
That's quite a collection :0, the who's who of Cherimoyas :). I wonder if they used to graft from trees on the property or get them from elsewhere


Time: 2nd March 2011 2:18pm

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J says...
You'd think more people would come out of the wood work with these varieties because SOME ONE must have purchased them back in 1998. I would LOVE to get a hold of EL BUMPO. You'd think with the internet and more & more people growing stuff in their gardens, MORE varieties would be available to the public, not LESS. It seems with a lot of fruit trees its getting more and more difficult to get varieties that where available ten years ago. See Birdwoods White sapote catalogue for the same year. It makes zero sense.

Back to Fino, my fino's seem to have recovered and look like they are getting ready to sprout new leaves. Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy and so forth.

EDIT: Does anyone know the average number of years it takes for Fino de jete Cherimoya trees to flower and fruit?

Time: 2nd March 2011 2:52pm

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kert says...
Their website seems to imply they have them growing on site.


Time: 2nd March 2011 2:53pm

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sydney
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klokanovic says...
Hi guys,

Does anybody have a Fino De Jete they'd like to sell?



Time: 19th March 2012 3:06pm

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micarle says...
Hey Kert Did you ever get Peirce or Bays
from these guys???

Time: 20th March 2012 10:11am

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About the Author micarle
Kurrajong Heights, NSW
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BJ says...
Just on the Cherimoyas at Birdwood. Saw a few of the remaining trees today. not many are left. They said they had a disease come through around a decade ago and wipe most out. Not much chance of getting the Birdwood held ones back on the market again.

Time: 6th May 2012 7:45pm

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About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
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