Gem Avocado Daughter of Gwen (forum)

Markmelb starts with ...
The new GEM (PBR) avocados are available now in shops - they have a GEM STICKER on them and are called either Hass or Gem Hass.

It does taste great and doesnt oxidise like Hass do. Only negative is the seed is rather large.

Ive tasted Gwen and is basically the same and also holds a good yearly crop rather then biennial.

My gripe is that Gem are available to the home grower in California but not here.

What i propose is for everyone to grow a GEM seedling and grow a better tree than GEM is - im sure there are home seedlings around that surpass some famous CVs.

If someone can come up with a great self fertile Hass/Bacon cross in the future we can grow all our Avos at home and be self sufficiant.

Time: 25th September 2016 8:30pm

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Linton says...
They sound very enticing but before trying to grow a Gem Avocado from seed, I would like to know what is the cold hardiness of this variety and if it is able to produce fruit in Melbourne.

Since Gem (and Gwen) are of Guatemalan origin, and Guatemala is a very tropical country, I don't want to waste too much time and effort on a species that might struggle here, especially considering that I have not had much success in growing other Avocado types previously.

Do you know if there is any published cold tolerance data for the Gem or the Gwen varieties. Thank you.

Time: 26th September 2016 11:00am

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Linton says...
Have now got a couple of the Gem Avocados from the fruit shop. The flesh is a deep golden yellow colour and the flavour is excellent.

Now I need to know, when I put the seed in a glass of water with the toothpicks, which way up does it go - always have trouble working that out. Thanks.
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Time: 28th September 2016 11:34am

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Markmelb says...
Hi Linton

I cut the tip off and peel the brown skin off to which helps release sides to split.(they do the same at nurseries)

That tip is on top and roots grow from flat base - sometimes ive seen a root growing in the Avocado up to a cm.

You can either put in water or in a pot (or tray if you have alot) with coir or mixed 50% with potting mix.

Put in a tall jar to keep tap root straight

As soon as you see about 5cm of root and some leaves - pot in a deep pot and wait till big enough to graft or plant in ground.
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Time: 29th September 2016 8:14am

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brad16 says...
Linton, the pointy end goes up. The flat &quote;bum&quote; end with the light coloured spot is where the root comes out.
I personally find the &quote;toothpicks and water&quote; tedious and have had more success simply planting them in soil, pointy bit up so the entire seed is just covered. Keep moist and warm.
The toothpick method is good as a novelty though.
PS. By the time the shoot is visable from the top, the root could be around 20cm long. So tall pots are best. I do them in Super Tubes and plant out once some leaves have formed.
Cool nights will slow progress. Last winter I put an old table in the corner of my office with an oil heater underneath it on low heat. It kept me warm and 40 or so mango and avocado seeds at about 20 degrees. Success rate was something like 95%. I recently put another 6 avocado seeds outside to germinate. The days are warmer, but the nights are still cool, and they are not as eager sprout as the ones I did inside on the table.
Good luck, and for anyone who snubs their nose at seedling avocados, the tree that got me into avocados was a Hass seedling planted over 25 years ago. It was huge and produced LOADS of avocados that were superior to any store bought Hass I've ever had. Ever since that tree was knocked down to make way for apartment blocks, I've respected the value of an avocado seed.

Time: 29th September 2016 12:41pm

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Markmelb says...
Brad - they were probably superior because they werent picked early like they do here - just to beat each other or the NZers to the first release of the season. That Gem seems to be picked ok - a seedling of Gem would be worth growing if you have lots of time up your sleeve.

Time: 2nd October 2016 9:16am

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brad16 says...
Hey Mark, I agree with you on early harvesting. Early harvest avocados taste like this http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger2/7768/2645/400/244572/100_022311w.jpg (credit for the image goes to Dave's Mechanical Pencils blogspot). If picked too early, they will not shelf ripen - ever! There are lots of Postcard Perfect avocados that taste just as good as postcards, and I'm happy to leave them on the shop shelves. BTW. avocados are one fruit that I will never buy as the 'First To Market' fruit. They always ends in tears.

Your original proposal of growing seedling avocados to surpass commercial cultivars is not unachievable. I gave an example of one backyard tree that did (unfortunately it no longer exists).
Commercial cultivars need to do more than taste and eat well. They also need to:

1. Crop well for economical viability.
2. Crop reliably for economical security.
3. Be sufficiently resistant to climatic and predatory adversities for economical maintenance of large crops.
4. Conform to aesthetic expectations of what looks good.
5. Transport and store well without damage or decay.

Commercial cultivars need to optimise it all, whereas backyard growers can afford to trade off some attributes, like transport, storage, productivity, aesthetics, maintenance of large crops etc. and have a smaller harvest of more flavoursome fruit. I'm certain there are lots more backyard trees around that meet that criteria (and yes ... lots that don't).

Time: 4th October 2016 4:59pm

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brad16 says...
Hi Mark and Linton. Fingers crossed for your GEM germination project. I'll be keeping an eye out for 'Diamond' Avocados in shops some years down the track :)

Time: 5th October 2016 5:49pm

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Markmelb says...
We haven't had any reports from Forum Members yet as to or if Gem is available outside of Victoria so far?

Maybe we got them first as a test run???

Yes -- Diamond would be a good name.

Did you also know that lamb Hass and Gem came from mass seedling plantings by the Avocado Research station in California - Lamb Hass took the name from the Ranch of a Mr Lamb that supplied the land to do it. GEM is an acronym for Grey E Martin involved in that project.


Time: 6th October 2016 11:18am

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brad16 says...
Nope, I didn't know about the origins of the names. That's one extra thing I learnt today.
I haven't seen any GEM avocados around, but then, I'm not out there looking for them. Thanks to this forum though, I'll probably get somewhat exited if see one. Of course I'll now have to give it a shot. You earning royalties by any chance? :)

Time: 7th October 2016 9:58pm

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Markmelb says...
Well thats the Aim Brad - The Guy who bought the rights to propagate Gem here in Australia wants his ROI - He gets a Royalty not only on the sale of the Plant - It could even be Clonally Grafted (lots of info on net about that) and they will charge alot more for those plants as they take extra work.

He will also get a Royalty from the Crop too - (happens now with Peaches Nectarines maybe Apples and Plums - eg Jazz and Queen Garnett.

Its a bit like Gates creating one copy of Windows and selling copies - much easier than time involved in growing plants - but hey plant creators wernt very rewarded in past.

If you read on Wiki about Hass Avo - the man who had the original was ripped off big time by his friend who mass propagated as he didn't possibly have a watertight contract. Is a good read.

I do wonder what the ROI is and how much per Avo is earnt?



Time: 10th October 2016 8:07am

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Linton says...
Thinking about grafting an Avocado......but never having done it before, I wanna know if it's better to graft a scion onto a seedling or another grafted plant.

Can't see the point in grafting onto an already grafted plant unless you want to have several varieties on the one tree. But I only want one type of fruit on the one tree and I think if grafted onto a seedling they should be more hardy, right? But the thing is, most nurseries don't seem to sell seedling avos for grafting on to and to buy a grafted one just to chop the top off is an expensive way of doing it.

Time: 11th October 2016 8:17pm

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StaceysGarden says...
You could try and get your hands on some suitable rootstock seed then grow the rootstock seedling yourself. Grafting is a lot more successful when the rootstock is still nice and young and green and hasn't developed too much of the brown bark. Well, that's my experience from grafting mangoes anyway.
There is actually another thread on here titled &quote;avocado rootstock seed&quote;

Time: 12th October 2016 1:10pm

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brad16 says...
Hey Linton, Daley's do actually sell avocado grafting stock if that's what you want to do. I agree that using a grafted tree as just root stock doesn't make much sense.

Also, avocado seeds become avocado seedlings (ie. root stock), so easy to make your own. Buying saves time I guess, and is a way of selecting known 'hardy' stock (as avocado seeds are normally from varieties selected for fruit, rather than roots).

I'd suggest do your first experiment with the cheaper 'plant your own seed' merely for the $$ value of purchasing a root stock plant (when for a few dollars more you could buy the job already done and successful). That's my 2 cents anyway.

Start a new topic when you do, and keep us posted with your progress. I'm sure there are quite a few folk that would enjoy following it.

Time: 12th October 2016 1:24pm

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denise1 says...
Just plant a seed from a bought fruit and the seedling will be ready to graft in just a few months.

Time: 12th October 2016 3:42pm

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Markmelb says...
Daleys as you said sell seedlings as a rootstock and i read recently they are using Reed seedlings because Zutano seeds have become difficult to source due to mass commercial propogation.

Ive grafted quite a few on Reed and have 3 Zutanos seedlings that will be 18 months old when I graft them but may keep the nicest looking one to grow on.

If you do a Google search on Reed or Mexicola root stock cold hardy experiments in the past 50 years they were the chosen seedlings before Duke7 etc and other salt tolerant or wet feet tolerant types were discovered.

I think Duke7 or other? was found growing by a lake for years and didnt suffer root rot.

Time: 13th October 2016 9:03am

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Linton says...
Thanks for the tips. Daleys don't seem to have any rootstock seedlings currently available so need to look at other options.

Does anyone know for sure when is the best time to graft avocados? I read many opinions that they should be grafted in early spring which is now and that seems right as my existing avo plants are all pushing new growth now.

So I don't really have time to grow a seed or I will miss the window and would have to wait another year to do it. However I would like confirmation that now is the best time as I am aware that others do their grafting in the middle of Summer, even though my trees tend to struggle and sometimes die at that time. Thank you.

Time: 13th October 2016 10:47am

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Linton says...
ok now that I've ascertained the correct season to graft avocados in Melbourne I might have time to wait for Daleys to grow some rootstocks to graft onto.

One thing puzzles me though. I was under the distinct impression that the sames types either A or B can only be grafted together, A onto A or B onto B. I also heard that people who tried to graft a Type A onto Type B or vice versa always failed.

If this is the case, I would like to know what type Daleys rootstocks are as they don't say in the description. Does this mean that Daleys rootstock can be used for grafting both Type A and Type B onto it?

Time: 25th October 2016 1:55pm

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GEM AVOCADO SEED NEEDED says...
Is there anyone out there who eats the avocado fruit and usually throws out the seed or pit? I could make use of any seed that you have and do not need! I live in the Orlando area of Florida and am finding it very difficult to locate what I need to begin propagation of a tree from the soil. Thanks for any response you may offer!

Time: 22nd June 2019 1:43am

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Manfred says...
Hi GASN - Most of us have learned over the years that you can't keep and plant all the seeds you get hold of, but the chances of getting a useful seed from Australia to Orlando are about zero.

Check out a local cafe which does avocado on toast or a local pub which does salads at lunchtime. If you get there at the right time they will throw them to you just to get rid of you. Or if you live in an avocado growing area check the local markets. Someone is likely to be selling bags of undersize or marked avos for about $2 for six or eight. Don't worry about the quality of the fruit, the genetics of the seed aren't reflected in individual fruits.

And Hi, too, Linton - I missed your October 2016 comment about A/B scions on B/A rootstocks or I would have thrown in my 2 cents worth then. My understanding is that until it flowers no-one knows what a seedling is going to be. No-one can afford to hold a rootstock that long before using it so rootstocks are used randomly. Anyone using the term seedling Hass, seedling Shepherd or whatever, is merely describing the fruit from the mother. If the mother is Hass, the father is probably a B and the seed could be either A or B.

Time: 23rd June 2019 1:39pm

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becrule35 says...
Exactly mark I agree. I have 3 gem seeds all waiting for them to germinate 🙏 I think we should all grow some seedlings especially those of us that live in perfect climate for avos and that have plenty of room. I don’t have much room and I live in cool temperate zone in Victoria but I am going I keep them in pots in greenhouse until one day they hopefully fruit. It sucks that gem isn’t allowed to be sold in Australia to us home growers. Does anyone know when it’s going to be sold elsewhere? Like in aus? Btw do you have any avocado scions I can buy from you? I can’t find any where to buy them. I have bacon but it’s still quite young but I have one cutting growing atm that seems to be doing well so far. Soon as it’s bigger I am happy to swap some grafted bacon trees and also I have other fruit trees I can swap cuttings with. Anyone who can help me out with some avo scions I am not wanting to buy tonnes of avo trees just to get more varieties, I don’t have the room and I want to graft my own Avo trees (I have rootstock already) so I have 4 varieties on one tree. That’s my goal anyways lol. Plus it’s so much fun growing our own. Plus I have severe health issues and wouldn’t mind saving some money since I paid 90 for my bacon tree.

Time: 27th August 2020 10:34pm

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becrule35 says...
Never heard of diamond avocados. Is the tree now available for sale? Is it cold hardy at all?

Time: 28th August 2020 2:19am

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Markmelb says...
In my opinion Gwen is alot nicer than Gem and smaller seed too. Lamb Hass is Dwarfing and has large fruit too. Mines topped out at 3.5mt is perfect for home garden.
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Time: 28th August 2020 8:59am

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becrule35 says...
Yes I am hoping to find someone to sell me lamb hass and Gwen but can’t find any atm. It’s driving me mad how much time I have spent looking for avocado trees for sale in aus that will ship to Ballarat too. I have germinated 2 gem seeds so far but wow they are slow to germinate, maybe they need warm consistent temp to germinate. I have feurte and bacon now. Wanting to get cold hardy Mexicola or any like that too. I want to get a cutting off Anne’s scions she sent you and some others years ago. How did the scions she sent you go? We don’t know what variety it is but who cares hey. As long as it fruits and grows in cool climates. It looks like Mexican variety like mexicola. So I’m sure it will grow down in Melbourne? Few others in vic got scions to take but no one is replying to me yet 🥺
I have severe health issues so that’s why I’m in a hurry to get them. Sooner the better cos I want to live to see all my trees fruiting.
Anyway mark can you please text me where I can get a cutting off that tree (the one Anne sent to you guys) i can’t even get a hold of Anne as her email isn’t working. Do you know how to contact her? I will pay for scions please 🙏

Time: 5th October 2020 10:43pm

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becrule35 says...
Phone number is 0402276347 if anyone can help me out with info on where I can get cold hardy avo trees and dwarf types too. Especially Mexicola etc types.

Time: 5th October 2020 10:45pm

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pap says...
becrule35, you can buy lamb hass from daley's , ross greek tropicals do mexicloa but there are none ready at the moment


Time: 20th May 2021 9:18am

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pap says...
creek that is

Time: 20th May 2021 9:18am

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