Grafting Citrus (forum)

amanda starts with ...
Hi all - I have to ask a dumb question here - but when limes etc are grafted do they graft a cutting onto the rootstock? Are all citrus thus clones? Does grafting really improve the growth of the tree?

I never know what my trees are grafted onto? They don't put it on the labels. Is it possible to "order" trees with the specific rootstock that you want/need for your conditions?
Are seedlings likely to be very variable with citrus?
Is there a good site that explains the benefits of the various rootstocks?
thanks for any help!

Time: 6th July 2010 12:28pm

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About the Author amanda19
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Brad says...
Agree with you that they never tell you this on the label and that annoys me. I've written that here before too :) I've no idea what any of my citrus are grafted onto

Have a read of Citrus Rootstocks for Western Australia - Farmnote 155 I'm not sure how useful it is if you don't know what rootstock you're buying

Time: 6th July 2010 2:18pm

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About the Author Brad2
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Rhys says...
Not sure about Daley's but you probably could put in an order with a nursery, but they may only do it if you're buying in bulk, or there may be a premium to pay if it's just for a "Custom Built" individual tree. It would be a good start if you could at least know what you are getting even if you couldn't pick and choose.

I think a lot of fruit trees are actually "clones" of an original selected seedling. Either through hard work or dumb luck, someone has found a tree that produced particularly good fruit so made a stack of cuttings or grafts from it and sold them, and then further cuttings/grafts were taken from these trees etc etc etc. Certainly the case with most of the pome fruits and i assume its similar with citrus as well?

I think citrus seedlings would be much like other fruits and quite variable depending on what pollinated the plant and how lucky you are...you might get lucky, though...maybe in 50 years we'll all be eating "Amandas Geraldton Orange" and you will have retired off the royalties!

As for what they graft, not sure if its a cutting grown plant or bits of a larger previously grafted tree that they use as "Stock"?

I think the main benefit of grafting is being able to choose some desirable characteristics, but it will probably always be a trade off...so you may get the dwarfing you want, but at the expense of susceptibility to root rot etc...so again, not being able to choose the root stock is a bit of a disadvantage. BUt i have noticed for a lot of Daley's stuff that they do sell some root stock, so you could give grafting a go yourself?

Time: 6th July 2010 4:48pm

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About the Author Getafix
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Jason says...
Most citrus are grafted onto dwarf rootstocks. But if you are in a marginal climate for growing citrus, it's a huge advantage to have them growing on either the same species they are or on their own roots from cuttings or air layers. I have a few Mandarins on dwarf rootstocks and it drives me insane, every year I keep not quite getting around to making some air layers so I can have some good decent sized trees :). Maybe this year.

I have a Lemon tree I grew from a cutting and it's the best growing citrus I have by faaar. In any case if you are not in a super warm climate and want a proper size tree instead of a 4 foot bush you need to either have them on their own roots or on mandarin rootstock or something like that

Time: 7th July 2010 7:12am

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About the Author Jason10
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Rev says...
your citrus may be ona dwarfing rootstock called 'Flying dragon'
its a mutant form of Poncirus trifoliata
ive seen it used as a low hedge in Kyoto!
its deciduous and cold hardy - and gives those properties to the scion.
it makes a very small tree but gives good fruit quality etc

you prop it by cuttings because it doesnt make seed. the parent tree does - trifoliate leaves and rough small orange like fruits - you could grow these from seed and graft your own semi-dwarfs

and yes many citrus do grow true from seed. Some are clones of the parent tree - instead of sexual reproducting parts of tissue from the mother plant form into seeds.
But then the citrus have to go through a juvenile phase, which is often thorny and lasts along time

im growing seedling Blood orange, pommmelo, finger lime, mexican lime Yuzu and Calamansi - because you just cant buy them grafted - not the same cultivars anyway.
Pommello isnt clonal but on the weight of it its sounds like it grows pretty true.
also planning on planting some Seville oranges this way
which can also be rootstock if you want a big old fashioned orange tree.

Time: 8th July 2010 5:15am

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About the Author Rev
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Rev says...
check this out
http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/horticulture/5543.html

Time: 8th July 2010 5:20am

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About the Author Rev
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Brendan says...
Hi Brad,
The Bush Lemon (aka Rough Lemon), is used a lot here for citrus rootstock. They grow wild here.
I can send you some seeds if you want, just leave your postal address. How many do you want?
Don't know if you'll receive them, as WA is a bit tough.
BTW, my neighbour has a very old 'grafted' orange tree, it is now half orange & half bush lemon. They are huge and taste great.
IMO, the bush lemon is the best lemon, as you can eat them like an apple, skin & all:-) Best on fish too.

Time: 8th July 2010 6:48am

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About the Author Brendan
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Charles cant spell says...
Brad,
I have 2 trees, a few seedlings and plenty of seed, just grab them sometime when your over. Thanks for the offer Brendan but we should be good for the rough lemon.
I thought they where rubbish but as everyone says they grow on you as they are hardy produce prolifically for 6 months and seem mild and less acidic.

I'll swap you a Chiliean guava for a lemon if you got your cuttings to take, best find some seedlings for you and stop pulling them out :)

Time: 8th July 2010 10:12am

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About the Author Charlesstillcantspell1
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Brad says...
I assume bush lemon and rough lemon are the same thing? In which case - there's heaps over here thanks for the offer Brendan.

I'm not actually currently looking for rootstock, except sacrificial bits to learn to graft on. I've got 4 potted up citrus on unknown rootstock (2 bought by/for me and 2 taken from my dad's bought property) and my mum's got a large eureka (I think ungrafted) lemon.

I plan on obtaining and grafting some kaffir lime onto the tahitian lime.

When the orange tree is bigger I may graft something else on it depending on what fruit it turns out to be

Charles - Its on my list but didn't get around to ugni cuttings but you can have the one from last year, which is a good size and I'll try some more anyway. I did get lemon thyme and peppermint potted up for you. The taragon i took from you didn't take.

Time: 8th July 2010 4:24pm

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About the Author Brad2
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Rev says...
heres a pic of a 'bush lemon' from the neighbours

they come a fair bit smaller than this, not sure if its bad genetics or bad environment
but these are defeinitely worth growing in their own right

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/Bernard_090/bushlemon.jpg

i doubt anyone needs them
but if you do need Bush lemon or Trifoliat orange seeds let me know, as they can be had right now

Time: 10th July 2010 7:21am

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About the Author Rev
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allybanana says...
Yes please on the seeds a couple of mates of mine have a rural property and would like some citrus to plant in a couple of years when they move there. I have offerd to graft if they grown the rootstock, they have quite heavy clay Trifoliat would be the best wouldnt it?

I have a huge bushlemon tree here in eden it was already a good size when we bought the property over twenty years ago it is yery tough and gives all the lemons wee need all year at the moment (It gets lots of wee now). It still gave some fruit in drought without being watered or getting run off from the roof. All trifoliat rootstock given simlar treatment has died.

I have since found out that bush lemon is more deep rooted than other rootstock and more drought tolerant. However, I have read it produces fruit that are more dry, sour and thicker skinned, how significant is this? can you still grow a pleasurable manderine or orange on it, if your not a fuss pot?

My email is allydalton.scutpture@gmail.com fourty seeds of trifoliat both would great i can pay postage or send seeds or material, pometgranate wood 6 varieties. Seeds i still have a few jelly palm carob and pigeon pea seeds. I think for bush temon i am better of gowing from old backyard seed as these would likly be more cold addapted.




Time: 4th August 2010 11:55am

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juanita says...
Hello to the grafting experts here!..I need your opinions,my question might sound silly but i want to be sure that i'll be doin the right thing...
Can we graft (i'll be doin bark graft of few branches)blood orange onto an established emperor mandarin tree & expect to produce some blood oranges? Both are citruses but of diff kinds..How successful this kind of graft will be?...Thanks in advance!

Time: 28th August 2011 1:43am

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Brendan says...
Hi juanita,
I'm no grafting expert, but yes, you can graft some blood orange budwood (scions) onto a mandarin tree.
I don't understand what you mean 'i'll be doin bark graft of few branches'? Do you mean 'shield budding'? I'd try 'whip-tongue' grafting, it works best when the budwood and the stock (in your case, the mandarin branch), are the same diameter.

Time: 28th August 2011 7:36am

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juanita says...
Hi Brendan
i'll be doin bark graft coz it works well when the branch of the established tree (mandarin) & the scion aren't the same diameter..

Time: 5th September 2011 1:46am

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allybanana says...
Jason et al, instead of air-layering to get citrus on their own roots how about deep planting them or building raised beds around trees already planted. That way roots grow out of the scion above the graft.

Re-reading this post just got me thinking as the only two decent sized mandarin trees we have, had raised beds built around them,(luckily by a handy man with no clue about collar rot). I just dug down and checked and there are roots growing from the scion. Maybe thats why they are healthy monsters and the other mandy trees are limping. I have read mandarin rootstock has better salinity tolerance and drought tolerance than trifoliata, we are close to the ocean it may play a part.

In addition if your using grey water salinity tolerance is important.This method is probably not as good as seedlings for rootstock complete with tap root for drought tolerance.

I wonder if when deep planted trees have roots growing above the graft, would the healthiest quickest growing root-system dominate. Like what happens with two types of growth above the ground.

I might also try this with grafted Bacon avocado of unknown rootstock to increase cold tolerance, deep plant to make sure i have mexican rootstock. Time will tell if the losses from collar rot are that much of an issue. The other issue i can see is phytophera resistance might be lessened if the the phtophera resistant rootstock is dominated by a less phytophera resistant scion root system.

But who knows time and play will tell :).




Time: 5th September 2011 7:57am

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About the Author allybanana
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sandy31 says...
Hi all
I am new to grafting , and was thinking to give Grafting a Try. I do have a well established Tahitian Lime tree in my backyard and it fruits very well. One of my mate who lives close by has well established Navel orange, manderine and tangelo trees in his back yard.
I was wondering can i graft all those three Citrus scion (Navel orange, manderine and tangelo) on to different branches my established Tahitian Lime?
Will this be a successful and fruitful reward?
Not sure if this is possible , please advise ?
Thanks

Time: 23rd May 2013 2:18pm

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jensen says...
I took some cuttings from a small citrus tree growing in my garden when I moved in. I assume it is a Bush Lemon (?). Some of them grew. -Very thorny. - No fruit yet.
Question:
If/when I prune the citrus trees I buy, can I hope to graft the cuttings unto the trees I assume are Bush Lemon?
(i e are all citrus trees 'compatible'?)

jensen


Time: 7th September 2017 2:04am

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Manfred says...
Essentially, yes. There are reasons for particular rootstocks being used and one of the common ones, Poncirus trifoliata, isn't even citrus but a different genus.

Trifoliata is used because it is semi-dwarfing, a bit drought tolerant, collar rot resistant and frost tolerant, but it is said to impart some bitterness to the fruit.

Bush lemons are a common rootstock but seed source isn't all that common commercially. They don't grow too big and are relatively collar rot resistant compared to most lemons. Not as salt tolerant as some of the citranges.

Apart from lemonades, citrus seem to do well on their own roots, though that is given as a reason for some citruses needing to be grafted. The more realistic reason is that seedling citrus have a long juvenile period (no fruit) are thorny and vigorous. Not good for picking.

Fruit from young citrus trees is also seedy for the first five to ten years. In my experience, this seems to apply to cutting grown trees and grafts too, though theoretically, it shouldn't. Perhaps the seedy period is shorter than for seedlings?


Time: 8th September 2017 9:55am

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About the Author Manfred
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jensen says...
Thank you Manfred.

jensen


Time: 16th September 2017 2:43am

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Darren says...
My Grafted Yuzu has about 13 good sized fruit this year and I got some strong trifoliata cuttings that had taken over my Sudachi..I have been trying to graft some yuzu and sudachi cuttings onto those, but they just brown off and die.. maybe because I don’t cut back all of the non-graft growth?

Time: 1st February 2018 6:09pm

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Fruitylicious1 says...
Hi Darren

I have tried inter-grafting different citrus varieties on each other with good success (orange, mandarin, lemon, lime). Normally i just used the cleft graft nothing fancy. I just insert the desired scion into the chosen rootstock split in the middle just enough to accommodate the wedge shaped tip of the donor plant usually a one year old lateral approx same size as the rootstock and carefully align the cambium layer. I used normal electrical tape and cover the graft with H2O moisturized plastic to simulate the green house effect. Once the graft has taken and showing some growth I prune some of the competing branches of the rootstock but not all. Once the graft is big and strong enough then i remove the rest of the stems of the rootstock or I retain some of them If I want to create a fruit salad tree. After three years they start bearing fruits. I did most of my grafting during spring time. Unfortunately my creations was left behind when we sold our property. I want to take them with me but, they were already 10 years old and huge.

Happy gardening :-)

Time: 3rd February 2018 10:44am

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About the Author Fruitylicious1
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Darren says...
Fruitylicious1 cheers! I bought one of those ebay grafting tools to see if I could better graft.It seems like I am doing the right thing..I had no problems with my Plumeria and Hibiscus grafts but the citrus is being picky,,,thanks!!

Time: 5th February 2018 8:21pm

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About the Author Darren
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Fruitylicious1 says...
Hi Darren

They can become recalcitrant sometimes. Key thing is the proper alignment of the cambium later and the timing (season) of the grafting when both scion and rootstock is starting g to grow. Practice makes perfect . Just persevere do it over and over again until you get the hang of it and have more success.

As Always....Happy GARDENING :-)

Time: 6th February 2018 1:33pm

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