Grafting the mother citrus onto is seedlings? (forum)

Anonymous starts with ...
Ok, I have dozenes (100) of Yuzu seedlings popoed up ready for potting out.
It depends on who you talk to as to if they grow true.
Question is Can a grafted mother plant be grafted onto its own seed stock and get the same 4-5 year turn out as I did with the original trees on dragon rootstock?

Time: 6th June 2013 10:10pm

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Brain says...
I believe Yes but I don't think you gain much by doing so.

Let me explain, it takes a while for the seedling to grow to a sizeable rootstock and then it takes another year or thrice for the scion (the mother plant transplanted) to grow to a decent size. By such time, the original seedling would probably be bigger and ready to fruit. And probably structually stronger too.

Also I too am in the camp that Yuzu is true to type for most seedlings, so it would be an exact clone fo the mother plant, so it would be no difference in what you are growing.


Time: 7th June 2013 11:24am

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Anonymous says...
Thanks Brian, The mother plants are 7 feet tall and all the seedlings are from this years fruit.
Im going to have to start giving them away to people with there own pots and soil. Could not believe how much bunnings want for a small plastic seedling pot.
Regards
M Nash

Time: 7th June 2013 8:41pm

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Brain says...
Your Yuzu seedlings are worth its weight in gold. A year ago, when i wanted one, they cost like $50 grafted and $40 for a seedling. (Yes, my wallet has subsequently 'lost weight').

Anyway, provided you don't live in Qld (quarantine restrictions forbids shipping outside qld), you can always offer a trade to others for good/used condition small pots/punnets.

Also you will need to really baby the seedling, otherwise the mortality rate is quite high. Also, try not to overwater.

Time: 11th June 2013 10:13am

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Anonymous says...
Thanks again.
They are sun hardened from sprout and seem quite hardy so far.
Might be worth getting them to a whip size and flog.
Question, The trees are in a grove with other citrus. Could cross polenation be an issue ?
Im waiting for the first lot of two part leaves to appear.
Here is what I have, About a hundred other seeds when into making marmalaid.


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Time: 11th June 2013 3:47pm

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Brain says...
Yes, cross polination could be an issue and as far as I've read, citrus can be easily cross polinated. Think exotics like Limequat, tangello etc. However, that said, I think the chance of getting a successful hybrid or a new (improved) variety is not high.

Like you, I'm growing a few kaffir lime from seed, which is also a close relative to yuzu. So leave pattern is probably the only reasonable indicator, until ones gets a fruit. I think it might need to get to 8 or 10 sets of leaves before you can tell with some certainty. Right now, my Kaffirs, with only 4 leaves, does not display any of the classic kaffir double leave shape. If anything, the back leave is much smaller than the front leaf, which would make it more 'yuzu', lol.

Time: 11th June 2013 5:10pm

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Anonymous says...
Cool man, I spoke too soon, This arvo I inspected closely and they are all showing double leaf. Also I remember they flowerd fairly early when not much else was in flower.
Your in brissy so Ive one of these seelings with you name on it :)


Time: 11th June 2013 10:08pm

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Brain says...
Haha, thanks, i'd love to take one and would swap you with a kaffir or a variegated calamondin seedling.

Also, I would also check for any seedlings with 2 or more stems from one (single) seed, as that would indicate it's a poly-embryonic and thus true to type.

There is very little literature on Yuzu but you might be interested in having a read of this page
http://users.kymp.net/citruspages/papedas.html


Time: 12th June 2013 2:05pm

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Anonymous says...
The Calamondin sound great.
Lots of them did have two stems, Maybe one in four or five.
Should I segregate those ?
Of the 25 Ive potted up the ones that had two stems I picked the smaller stem away.
This weekend Ill bight the bullet and get a hundred potting bags or six inch pots.


Time: 12th June 2013 3:11pm

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Brain says...
Calamondin, done! It will probably take some time, i.e. summer, for it to get to a decent size and that you can say with some certainly, that the plant will be strong enough to survive. So watch this space.

depending on what you read and who you talk to, some people say, pick the strongest and the first one, as that's the true clone, as the others are from the same seed are sexually produced, and hence not clones. Others say the first and strongest are sexually produced and hence 'superior' to the clones, as that's nature's way to ensure diversity.

Also another factor is how much energy is stored in the seed in each seqments, therefore initial size may be a determinent of the energy content, rather than genetics.

I'm of the view that for citrus at least, being a predominant polyembryonic, the first/strongest is the clone, and the others may also be clone and may not be, depending on variety. So in effect, both strong and the weak ones could potentially be clones. At the very least you are assured that one of them is a clone but the question is which one.

What you can do, as an experiment is, to wait until like 6 or 8 leaves, and then seperate them. Then watch for any signs or things that is different, especially if you have a few other seedlings to compare. Let us know how you go over time :)

Time: 13th June 2013 10:23am

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Darren says...
My yuzu is about 2 metres, 13 fruit on. I find they grow readily from seed but having no luck grafting. Also, have noticed white spots on fruit this year which I didn’t have last season. Some kind of canker?
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Time: 1st February 2018 7:01pm

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Fruitylicious1 says...
Your Yuzu tree is infected with fungal pathogen called citrus scab (elsinoe fawcettii). Fruits are infected in their early stages of development. On the rind of developed fruits, raised lesions are formed with different shape, size and color according to the species and cultivar affected.

Treatment includes regular pruning to open up the tree and to improve aeration in and around the plant. Chemical treatment involves spraying copper oxychloride thou might not be effective if the aeration and humidity hasn't improved. Thus requiring multiple applications. The fungicide is normally applied before flushing and after petal fall to be effective.

I also tried inter-grafting citrus varieties but mainly lemon, mandarin and orange. I found good success. After three years the grafts started fruiting. I just used normal cleft graft nothing fancy. Taped it with electrical tape and cover it with plastic with a bit of moisture to simulate a greenhouse effect. I didn't cut any of the non-grafted branches of the mother tree. I only started pruning them when the grafts started growing. All grafting were done during spring.

Time: 2nd February 2018 9:29pm

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Original Post was last edited: 3rd February 2018 10:57am

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Darren says...
thank you! you are a legend! I noticed white spotting on the leaves of the Yuzu and the tree is quite healthy but it wasn't til recently I saw the scab..I have a lot of fungal issues in my yard, I don't know why.I will try opening it up, although it is not very congested..I do have copper spray though.Should I wait until the fruit ripen or hit them when green? thanks for the awesome information!

Time: 5th February 2018 8:24pm

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Fruitylicious1 says...
Hi Darren

Unfortunately, these critters (scab) are extremely difficult to eliminate because they are normally spread by rain, water splashes and wind. So we are fighting against nature all the time. We can only minimize their effect.

Timing of the spraying regime is very crucial for effective scab management. The first spray is usually done in early spring during flowering (quarter to half petal fall) the next spray after 6-8 weeks will greatly depend upon the weather. If the weather remains dry before and after the intended time of the second spray then it will be effective. If not you will need a third spray after 6 weeks depending upon the weather conditions again at the intended time of the 3rd spray. You must be vigilant about the weather forecast if you don't want your treatments go to
waste.

Some people go to great lengths to avoid rain and water splashes and wind getting to their precious trees by creating a framed plastic cover (awning). A few even grow them inside a greenhouse to protect their greenies from water and airborne diseases. It's up to the gardener how far they want to go and how deep their pockets are with regards to plant protection.

As Always....Happy Gardening :-)

Time: 6th February 2018 3:36pm

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Darren says...
I have a sneaky feeling the neighbour's bush lemon may have been the culprit.I guess I will just wait for the yuzu and mandarin to finish fruiting and try next flowering season.On top of the brown rot on the stone fruit and the problematic grape vines....gaaaaaah!

Time: 11th February 2018 7:40pm

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