Grumichama - yellowing leaves ? (forum)

Nicole starts with ...
Hi there
I have a hedge of Black Grumichama - about 14 plants.
Three plants have yellowed leaves all others have the beautiful glossy green...
I assume this may be some soil deficiency..?
Any ideas on how to treat it?
Kindly


Time: 13th July 2010 1:53pm

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About the Author Popsybubblehead
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amanda says...
Hi Nicole - are u able to post a photo?

Time: 13th July 2010 11:52pm

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Nicole says...
Hi there Amanda
I have attached a couple of photos - two bushes, and leaves - both green and yellow from each bush.
What are your thoughts?
Kindly
Nicole
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3
Picture: 4
Picture: 5

Time: 18th August 2010 11:41am

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amanda says...
Owch! they not good are they Nicole...at first glance it looks like an iron deficiency - are the older leaves are a deeper green than the young one's?

It's odd that it's not happening to all of your bushes - these 3 are not planted on top of a block of concrete, limestone, mortar or anything are they? It would be good to check the pH of the soil around those 3 and compare with the soil from the healthy ones.

I'd get an iron chelate spray onto them asap. don't overdo it or u may burn them. See how they respond and then follow up.

Other deficiencies that can look similar are zinc and manganese - when they are severe enough. They will also be affected if the soil is alkaline. I still think iron though.

Let us know the pH and how u go?

Time: 18th August 2010 2:10pm

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Brendan says...
Hi Nicole,
I'd give it some Epsom Salts (magnesium sulphate), as well.

Time: 19th August 2010 7:50am

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About the Author Brendan
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amanda says...
Lol - what is it with Queenslanders and Epsom salts?!
It doesn't really look like a magnesium problem but here is some info for you Nicole and u can make up your own mind (I will post some pics later):

Bright yellowing on older leaves.
Yellowing spreads from the tips and margins towards the main vein, leaving a characteristic green triangular area near the base of the leaf.
In deciduous fruits, cholortic areas often become scorched and leaves fall prematurely. Defoliation can be heavy in citrus caryying a large crop.
Young leaves are green (magnesium a mobile element - when deficient/unavailable it is transported from the old leaves to the new - that's why older leaves go yellow first)
Deficiency more common on leached acid sandy soils.
Unavailability more common after liming, over potassium fert' use or a natural imbalance in certain calcerous soils.

Hope this is helpful..?

Time: 19th August 2010 9:51am

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amanda says...
Ok Nicole here are some pics (sorry about the quality - I am not good at scanning in colour..so I had to take pics out of the book) I have to post them as 3 posts also - as the file too big for one hit.
Anyway - see what u think. I can send a scan of the pages with the information on each deficiency if you need.

This one is MANGANESE deficiency.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 19th August 2010 12:45pm

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amanda says...
This one is ZINC def'y
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2

Time: 19th August 2010 12:46pm

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amanda says...
This one is iron chlorosis.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3

Time: 19th August 2010 12:47pm

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amanda says...
And, lastly, MAGNESIUM def'y.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2

Time: 19th August 2010 12:48pm

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Wayne says...
You read to many books Amanda

Time: 19th August 2010 2:42pm

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amanda says...
Maybe someone else, more experienced than I, could offer their opinion then..?

Time: 19th August 2010 2:52pm

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Wayne says...
You confuse yourself and others with science Amanda, go for the obvious first and if that doesn't work then go further. 90% [I'm guessing] of the home garden problems are something simple, you have posted a heap of pictures that someone, without a degree in horticulture, could miss interpret.

Simple remedies such as dolomite and magnesium sulphate etc will not hurt the soil or plant and more often than not are the root of the problem, but when you start talking the likes of adding sulphur or having iron deficiencies you can do damage to your soil

Time: 19th August 2010 6:00pm

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amanda says...
Owch - what's got your goat Wayne? :) I am not confused - at least I don't feel so - the pics look pretty obvious but a pH test would help here.
I am, however, trying to help by problem solving - in order to get the best result for the patient :)

I have posted the pics in case Nicole can see a pattern - not for an ego trip.

For the record - I don't use agricultural sulphur nor have I recommended it. There are far kinder ways to reduce soil pH.

Iron cholorsis is a realtively common problem - eg: in already borderline soils that then get a large amount of rain and or overwatering.

However, Nicole's 'deficiency' is a bit more problematic - her other 11 or so trees, in the hedge, are fine..?
Maybe something inadvertantly got spilled/washed there causing a temporary pH shift..maybe there is limestone there..don't know without more info'.

Many people garden in marginal soils in Australia and without decent rainfall, saline water etc. Some have too much magnesium in the soil already - causing surface crusting, water repellance and collapse of soil structure. Adding more, in these cases, will actually hurt the plant and the soil.

"Deficiency" is also not always the best word in many cases - rather the elements are there - but locked up. Adding more of the element isn't going to help in these cases.

Adding things that are not needed can upset the balance of other elements and their uptake. The fertiliser companies get to make heaps of cash and most of it ends up in our water tables and rivers...causing a whole lot more problems.

By piecing together the evidence - more often than not only one remedy is needed. Sometimes it's more complicated.

Eg: my citrus trees suffer from mild Iron, Zinc and Manganese deficiencies (like many folks) - it's worse in winter when the weather is cold (winter yellows) and Zinc uptake affected. My soil is slightly alkaline and I use pine bark chips and organic matter to bring the pH down long term. Sometimes there is nothing else for it than for me to apply a foliar spray of these elements.

It might sound corny - but I am a custodian of the soil for my children and so on. I make it my business to know and understand what my soil needs and how best to treat specific problems without causing long term damage.
I also care about any "advice" I give others - lest I stuff up their soil or plants.

So, that's my lecture for the day..oops..think I had better go now... :-o

Time: 19th August 2010 6:53pm

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Brendan says...
Hi amanda,
I have a Richgro Copper Sulphate (500g), as I was going to make my own Bordeaux mixture.
On the back of this container, it has the following information:

Iron Sulphate........Increases soil acidity
Blueing Tonic........Hydrangeas
Magnesium Sulphate........Rich Green Leaves
Copper Sulphate........ Copper Deficiency
Complete Trace Elements........Vitamins for plants.

I had a sick looking Blood Orange tree, yellowing leaves etc. I gave it some Epsom salts and it's never looked back, that's probably why I recommened it's use :-)

Have a nice day:-) (don't forget to vote early & vote often:-)

Time: 21st August 2010 8:14am

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amanda says...
I understand. :)

Time: 21st August 2010 10:49am

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amanda says...
Happy birthday to Brendan..happy birthday to Brendan..happy birthday dear Brendan...happy birthday to U. :))))
How was the Tooheys???

Time: 22nd August 2010 8:05pm

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Brendan says...
Hello amanda,
Yes, those Tooheys Extra Dry Platinum at 6.5% do have a kick!
Don't think I'll be doing that for a while, hic! :-)

Time: 23rd August 2010 6:09am

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Nicole says...
Hi there everyone
I'm just overwhelmed by the response!!
THANKYOU!!!!

Amanda you have anticipated the planting location well. They are situated against a low brick wall 40cm in height. I also have generally very sandy soil !!

I'll get a spray onto them asap and let you know how it goes

Thank you again everybody!!
Kindly
NIcole

Time: 24th August 2010 8:07pm

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About the Author Popsybubblehead
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amanda says...
Hi Nicole - sort of good and bad news huh? Get the iron chelate spray onto them and see how they are after 2-3 weeks. You may need to amend/fix the soil (or remove the wall...?) in the long term.
Do check that pH though - if the soil really alkaline then u may get problems with other elements (like zinc and manganese, boron) and then maybe check back in here for some ideas from the forum?
Good luck! :-)

Time: 26th August 2010 9:54pm

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Nicole says...
Hi there Amanda
The PH results are in - we scored a 6 !
So we are on the fairly neutral scale of the PH range
I'll go ahead and spray with iron chelates and check progress.
Kindly
Nicole

Time: 29th August 2010 4:59pm

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amanda says...
Hi Nicole - where did you get these plants?

These are some of mine. One is from Daleys and, unfortunately, has a chimera (a genetic abnormalty that prevents correct chloroplast formation) I had 5 sent over about a year or so ago and 2 are dead aready. It's the sick yellow one.

The other two are froma different supplier (Birdwood) one is in the same orchard as the sick one - and the othe is in a pot. They are doing well and no problems. So it's not me! :)

(PS - the Dept of Agriculture Pest and Disease service diagnosed a chimera from leaves I sent them)
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3

Time: 29th August 2010 8:35pm

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Original Post was last edited: 30th August 2010 4:34pm

About the Author amanda19
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Rev says...
yeah i called into daleyss and bought one of those variegated grumichamas in the bagrain basement ward ")
love that spot
im such a cheap skate

:D

Grumis seem to be widely accepted but either slow or hard to fruit
nevertheless ive tasted them in ewingar NSW, and geraldton WA
opposite sides of the country

Time: 31st August 2010 7:34pm

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About the Author Rev
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amanda says...
Are u being cheeky about the "variegated" thing Rev? :) These chimera plants are a waste of time and energy - IMO. I am pretty dark about it as it cost me around $170 to get those 5 plants over here...grr.

I had one fruit off my "good" plant 4 months after planting - it was such a tease! It was very nice. I hope I can get at least a few this season to get a proper taste....

Time: 31st August 2010 10:11pm

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Tim says...
Hi Amanda, just been reading about the Grumichama problems and saw your pics, mine looks exactly like your pic no.3.

What would you recomend to fix it?

Tim.

Time: 12th October 2010 9:23pm

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amanda says...
Hi Tim - Happy Earth may be able to help u better here? Mine is a chimaera and has resisted all fixing. here is a link to this topic in the forum and a pic of what my plant looked like brand new - the markings are quite distinctive - where did u get your plant?

https://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/virus/

Time: 14th October 2010 2:10pm

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Original Post was last edited: 14th October 2010 4:22pm

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