mango in the snow (forum)

kert starts with ...
Who has the most southerly mango? I'll start with Sydney > any body south of me ? Mines Kensington Pride and it fruits ,say, one year in two.

Time: 15th May 2009 7:14am

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Grant says...
Hi Kert, Mine is a KP also. It fruits every year with 2/3 of the fruit being 1/2 size..... but just as tasty. I'm in Whyalla in SA

Time: 15th May 2009 7:29am

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Steven says...
Hi everyone

I have a kensington pride mango in Melbourne. Its still young i bought it last year, but it survived the winter quite well. Its still too young to fruit but looks quite healthy

Time: 15th May 2009 11:42pm

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kert says...
May I ask what the winter minimum temp. is in your areas and whether the crop is tasty or not . It seems, sofar anyway ,that Kensington Pride is quite cold tolerant . Anyone else have successes with other varieties in the cold?

Time: 16th May 2009 9:10am

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Bobby says...
they die back if too cold. if thats more than they grow in the hot season they die.

Time: 16th May 2009 5:02pm

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Grant says...
Kert, I have found that Mangoes are surprisingly cold tolerant. I would definitely rate them as sub tropical, not tropical, I have a few varieties that fruit every year. Ok they don't reach the size that they do in warmer climates... But everyone that has tried them say that they are more flavoursome than the ones from the supermarket. In my exuberance I even planted two random grafted varieties from Daley's in winter and they sat quite happily setting rapid growth in spring. We have the occasional frost in winter with minimum temps of down to -4... but usually much warmer minimums....and generally warm sunny days. If the trees are protected when they are young they will grow rapidly in summer and be able to survive cool temps once established. Hope this helps

Time: 16th May 2009 5:27pm

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Jantina says...
My Florigon mango in a pot is flowering now (I've kept it fairly dry since it got cooler)but I thought they flowered in spring.It is on a north facing verandah partially enclosed with glass. Any advice from mango growers?

Time: 18th May 2009 6:32pm

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Speedy says...
Earlier this year I visited a guy in Mildura who has a small plantation (maybe 30-40 trees) of mangos.
They're about 10-12yrs old and fruit well most years.
They are Kensington Pride (Bowen Mangos).
He says that grafted ones don't have as much vigour as the 'Bowens'.
The fruit come off as the last mangos for the Aust. season.
I reckon you could map the seasons route south for a given cultivar from the islands off NT ,NT, FNQ , down the coast SE Qld, NSW and so on into Victoria.
microclimate would vary this a bit.
By the time 'Bowen' season hits Mildura
the taste of the mangos from northern plantations is a faint memory from several months ago.
He would make a good bit of money from the trees as by then, the price was good again.

If growing grafted cvs., earlier fruiting may be better, I think, as there would be time for the trees to put on some growth after fruiting before it gets too cold and they slow down.
late varieties may be prone to biennial bearing in order to build up energy in the trees in the 'off' years so they can fruit the next.

With a grafted mango the smaller stature would allow easier covering with a climate shelter every winter.

I have heard of another grower in Mildura who has a lot of trees under hail netting.


Time: 18th May 2009 7:45pm

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About the Author Speedy
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Steven says...
Hi Speedy. Does this person who has a mango plantation in mildura grow his trees in a greenhouse or out in the open? and if so does he cover them in winter or provide any protection for them during winter.

Correct me if in wrong but i think mildura would have one of the coldest winters in victoria (besides the alps) as it is very open and quite flat.

According to www.bbc.co.uk the Average minimum for Melbourne is 6C. We do get a few nights of a few degrees below 0 but not many.

Ive been checking my Kensingtop pride mango often. its on the north side of a lemon tree which may offer some protection from wind but i doubt much and so far it looks perfectly fine.

regards

Steven
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Time: 1st June 2009 1:02pm

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Speedy says...
Hi Steven,
The guy growing mangos in Mildura grows them out in the open- no cages.
There is a bit of protection from cold winds which I reckon can be more damaging than frosts.
Mildura is a lot warmer than Melbourne (Yearly Ave) and could mean that the soils may be a few degC warmer.
It does have more extreme weather - higher highs and lower lows but in winter the days often gets back up to comfortable temperatures.

Wrapping the trunk with straw as insulation is a common technique used in Japan to protect sensetive trees.

Here is away to keep the soil a bit warmer.
Lay a 1 metre square (or bigger) piece of black plastic or weed mat flat on the ground and place a few small pieces of wood or bricks on top as spacers.
Place another piece of clear plastic or better still, bubble wrap to cover the first held at the edges with boards.
The 2 sheets of plastic of course, should each have a slit from the edge to the middle to accomodate the tree trunk.
This should catch sun heat and conduct it into the ground, while preventing as much loss through re-ratiation at night.

A way to keep microclimate warmer for your mango tree is to have a few drums (20, 50, 120 or 200 litre)
full of water to absorb heat from the day and radiate it at night.
Painting the drums black can help catching heat.
A plastic climate shelter around it will increase the efficiency.

Once the trees are though the first 2-3 yrs they should be ok, but still keep an eye on the weather forcasts for frosts and cold winds, and respond accordingly.
I've seen some nasty frost damage to quite large mango trees in NNSW.

Time: 1st June 2009 3:26pm

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amanda says...
hey speedy - would that not cook the roots/microbes?
I was thinking that the plastic would solarise the soil maybe?

duuno - but what about using rocks to re-radiate heat?

Drum idea is a goodie!

Time: 2nd June 2009 12:15am

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Speedy says...
Yeah, it could cook microbes but only so far down into soil profile.
They can be replaced easily enough with compost or compost tea drench.
If you used the weed mat option it would still attract the heat while allowing the soil to still breathe.
It'd be one of the few things I would use weedmat for- shit of a stuff!
Remember to, that its just for the winter.
its probably not going to excede say 65degC deeper than 1-2cm, a temp that most compost microbes handle very well.
Excluding air would be more damaging I think.
With a 1 metre square plastic it's only 25-35 cm max distance sideways to any given edge.
Worth the effort if it establishes a mango quicker in a less than ideal climate I reckon.
Amanda , did you try my email address?
If you didn't see it, it's in my second last post in the biolytix thread.


Time: 2nd June 2009 12:51am

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About the Author Speedy
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Amanda2 says...
Yes I did - but does it have a "dot au" on the end?

I was looking around the other morning and realised that I don't need validation for I what I have done here (as half a dozen native finches serenaded me while I had my cuppa! beautiful..)
And the photo was the view..

I'm still happy to have a chat - but are u a 'real' person?
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Time: 2nd June 2009 1:13am

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Steven says...
Hi Speedy

The more extreme weather conditions in mildura may make it harder for the mango's to live than in melbourne as a couple of very cold nights might just be enough to cause alot of damage. So mango's must be much hardier than people think. I think most tropical plants will be able to climatise very well to cooler climates as long as they arent exposed to frost.

Your mat idea is a good idea and would help keep the roots warmer and help protect the tree from frost as your preventing any from touching the tree. I doubt it would get too hot for the tree or microbes under there unless you have the mat down during a very hot day. But there would be no need to have it down during summer anyway.

Regards

Steven

Time: 2nd June 2009 11:46am

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Speedy says...
Climatic tolerances of plants is a very complex issue.
That's why it's great to have a forum like this one for exchange of ideas very quickly.

Even though Mildura has more extreme conditions, I beleive that the higher avearage winter temps,
the longer warm season and overall greater amount of heat throughout the year would allow for better growth.

As an example of the benefits of these factors, look at inland NNSW ,say Casino or Kyogle.
They receive much more heat (yearly total) than Victoria and have a shorter cool season.
They can also have some very nasty frosts, sometimes several in week or two.
Even then the ground is much warmer and allows damaged plants to regrow quickly.

That having been said, in an urban situation, such as yours,
microclimates can be more easily modified and maintained than in open spaces.
I still reckon your chances are good with the mango.

From my observations over the years, and I'm still trying to get a handle on it,
I beleive some of the main limiting factors to growth of warm climate plants in cooler climates are:-

*Total heat throughout the year- I sort of think of it like the inverse of chilling hours...something like that.
*Low soil temperature, esp. with high soil moisture
*Cold winds and/or draughts
*Hot dry winds
*Low humidity
*And the duration of any of these.

Another thing to keep in mind is cold air drainage.
If you're on the middle or upper part of a slope the cold air will 'pour like treacle' down
to lower ground away from your trees.
Frost will settle at the lower points in the landscape first.
This action will displace warmer air that can sit on top of the cool and
can form a thermal belt several degrees warmer than everywhere else on the slope.
Not in all cases, but it's worth looking out for on early winter mornings.





Time: 2nd June 2009 6:11pm

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Steven says...
Hi Speedy

Yeah i agree with you, the overall heat and sunlight would make mildura a better place to grow Mango's especially when the tree is producing fruit. However the more extreme temperatures could mean that the tree is under much more stress during winter. Especially erratic weather conditions during winter that the tree doesnt have a chance to climatise to.

i think once the tree is big enough not to be damaged from the frost forming on the ground during winter its main survival threats are over. with that said i still have my mango open to cold winds in the spot i have photographed earlier in the forum. we have had some cold nights recently with chilling winds and ive checked my mango closely and so far it seems fine. Ill let you know how it goes throughout winter and if it starts to look sick ill put it in the courtyard where it will be sheltered from wind and the cold.

Recently i have also done a bit of research on mycorrhizal fungi (the fungi grows on and forms an association with the tree roots) which can greatly increase the trees roots ability to absorb water and other nutrients hence greatly strengthening the tree. its a good idea for any tree especially for trees growing in a climate they arent used to so it may be something worth looking in to.

Regards

Steven

Time: 10th June 2009 10:15am

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Speedy says...
Mangos would team up with endomycorrhizal fungi as distinct
from ectomycorrizal (like the ones that grow under pines and oaks- milk caps , Slippery Jacks and death caps) and are most likely present in your soil.
Endomycorrhizae don't have fruiting bodies above ground, so their presence is not so obvious.
If you wanted to introduce some you can buy it in powder , mix with water and use as root dip (best) or soil drench.
They are also present in a matured, well made aerobic compost.
With compost, you will have local species.

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/microbial-products/nutri-life-vam-tech.html

http://www.ecogrowth.com.au/VAM%20EcoGrowth%20May%2003.pdf

Time: 10th June 2009 2:35pm

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kert says...
I am taken with your erudition . Is there any reference for mycorrhizal association with mango ;and verification of benefit. ? Or are your views an extrapolation from a commercial products info.?

Time: 11th June 2009 10:26am

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Steven says...
Yeah the product from nutri-tech is the one im trying to get, however they havent replied to my email as yet. I think its a great idea especially for tropical trees, and seeing that they are growing in pots i doubt there is any mycorrhizal fungi infecting the trees already.

Im also trying to inoculate some oaks/pines with some edible ectomycorrhizal species (Boletus edulis or Porcini) in particular. hopefully it works.

Regards

Steven

Time: 11th June 2009 10:29am

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Speedy says...
Hey,
Steven2986?,
Pinus pinea from Gecko?... and chestnut?






Time: 11th June 2009 11:00am

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Speedy says...
Kert,
Most plants form asociations with mycorrhizal fungi.

Pinaceae -pines, spruces, firs etc
Fagaceae- Oaks, chestnuts, hornbeams etc.
birches, hazelnuts, Eucalypts, Dipterocarps in tropics and lots more
team up with ectomycorrhizal(ECM) fungi.
most ECM have visible sporocarps -mushrooms, puffballs, truffles.
Some you may have to dig for.

Rhododenrdons, Azaleas, heaths, with ericoid mycorrhizae

most others including grasses will team up with endomycorrhizae.

some may utilize/host endo and ectomycorrhizae.
It could well change throughout the life of an individual plant over time.


Brassicas,chenopods,amaranths, poppies dont form partnerships with mycorrhizae.
They're the exceptions, most likely others too, but most plants generally will.

As for commercially available ones, I don't take too much notice of them ,
but I think they do have a place in pasteurized potting mixes to inoculate plants in a medium devoid of the fungi.
Also to get good colinization of the roots If you dont have any good compost.

For plants in the ground, however, compost should do a good job at.
Most soils, unless they've really been abused should have some form of mycorrhizae present,
especially if there is a good range of grasses and weeds growing.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=0BKJTpfD6f0C&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=Mango+mycorrhiza&source=bl&ots=dU8q1BCTCM&sig=IVkW9lCp8UQqxgVDbtNK-AnQgSc&hl=en&ei=e2AwSueTOaPmsgPF_LDEAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4


http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.php?cid=871



Time: 11th June 2009 11:46am

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jamie says...
speedy,if this is you.please contact me at the diggers club as i have misplaced your contact details,i may have some zizyphus cultivars later this year after i return from western australia and queensland.jamie.

Time: 11th June 2009 12:57pm

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Speedy says...
Yeah It's me.
kool!
Just left my phone number with ...Col?
Talk soon.

Time: 11th June 2009 4:05pm

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Steven says...
Thanks for the info speedy

Ive done a bit of research on mycorrhizal's and have found which plants i can inoculate with endomycorrhizals. I bought the VAM tech from nutri-tech so hopefully ill get that

My main interest is with exomycorrhizals though, as they create fruiting bodies. in particular boletus edulis and tubar melanosporum. however i dont think there are many places in australia that produce exomycorrhizal spores.

Time: 15th June 2009 11:16am

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About the Author Steven
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LEBOWSKI says...
Thanks guys....you have given me hope!!!

So an early fruiter for Melbourne is best?

And the Kensington Pride could be a goer?

Let me know if you have any other thoughts

regards Lebowski

Time: 17th December 2009 12:52pm

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amanda says...
I recently saw R2E2 mangoe trees growing down near Bunbury and doing well. They also have a few in the Ferguson Valley - which gets pretty frosty. Don't know about the fruit tho' - doesn't matter how cold tolerant the tree is - you need certain temps to initiate flowering.
All I know about R2E2's is that they are (IMO) good to eat, huge and prolific producers at a young age.

Time: 15th July 2010 7:09pm

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snottiegobble says...
So you got to see gnomesville Amanda?
Gee, Ive been looking at Kensington Mango trees in the local nursery for ages not believing they would even survive down here let alone fruit! Now Im really tempted.

Time: 15th July 2010 11:23pm

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amanda says...
Hey Snottie....if u are interested in R2E2's there is an excellent source of quality trees in Carnarvon. I can track down for you if u are interested (she also does excellent Hass avo's) Mum grew the mangoe in C'von and it was a machine! Got the water from the bathroom directly thru some (illegal maybe?) plumbing...
Gnomesville is pretty funny hey.

Time: 16th July 2010 12:45am

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Charles cant spell says...
My mums got a Mango growing in Pemberton, its in a micro climate provide by large wattles but it is very slow growing. And yes no fruit in 10 years.

Time: 16th July 2010 10:20am

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Jason says...
Mangos are pretty much 100% success from Perth across Adelaide, Mildura, Sydney. There are people in all those places with large solid fruiting mangos. After that it gets a bit Sketchy but there's a few towns in the Middle of Victoria in the "Orange belt" (Where you start to see Orange trees in everyones front yard) where I'm sure they would be happy enough. Melbourne would be getting really sketchy even though it's muuuuuch warmer (about 3 degrees c constantly) than other places in Victoria at night thanks to all the people and concrete. Outside Melbourne in the open is pretty much no go, I have heard of the odd rumour/story of a tree fruiting that far South out of the city, but I've never seen one myself. You wont kill one with the low temps but it wont grow enough to actually do anything

Time: 16th July 2010 3:16pm

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wzis_info says...
My King Thai Mango tree planted in the front yard last year now seems dying since this winter started, before the winter, it was growing pretty well.

Time: 8th September 2022 8:49pm

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