mounding/drought/wet (forum)
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ringelstrumpf starts with ...
If you look into a gardening book they tell you that, if your drainage is bad, you have to mound a tree. But what does this exactly mean? Say, if you would have a tree with a tap rood of 4 meters would you then mound four meters and if the root system is shallow (which depth is shallow anyway?) then you would mound only half a meter? Do you mound to the usual depth of the root?
If the drainage is bad still the water table varies and if you mound it might be bad in drought.
If the wet season is that wet now, I really fear how dry the next season will be (and afterwards how wet it will become). If you mound that is a disadvantage in drought - isn't it?
How to plan gardens which are resilient in drought and flood?
Time: 11th January 2011 12:55pm
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About the Author ringelstrumpf1
Blue Mountains
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krazykangaroo says...
Hi, the tap root on most trees is only to stabilise it, not to gain access to water and minerals. On some dry climate trees the tap root is useful for gaining access to water but it is still mostly the feeder roots that head downward in their case. Most trees actually lose their tap root as they age, just look closely at any trees that fall over in the next storm.
It is the feeder roots that you are protecting by mounding. These grow just under the surface of the soil and spread out to get water and minerals. If you keep some of them above the water the tree still has access to air which it needs. That is the purpose of mounding.
Time: 11th January 2011 1:14pm
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About the Author krazykangaroo1
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Brad says...
the other point in clay soils is to avoid digging a depression into the clay which pools water. Even if you then pile or mound on top of this, its a recipe for waterlogging. so the idea is to get a height of nice organic soil above the clay which has enough healthy volume for roots but water can still drain off.
the top of the mound is mulched for all the normal reasons
hth
Time: 11th January 2011 4:54pm
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About the Author Brad2
G hill,Perth
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ringelstrumpf says...
You mean as soon as I dig into the clay soil I compact it and it puddles up?
And what happens then in the next drought?
Remember the water restrictions?
You cannot plan your garden for extremes like flooding but for 4 weeks rainfall or several month of drought.
Time: 11th January 2011 9:36pm
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About the Author ringelstrumpf1
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amanda says...
There are ways ringlestrumpf - but they may require earthworks first. Swales are a common example - especially ones that can overflow to a reed bed, dam or whatever.
One of the most effective ways of watering in drought is to make a shallow "moat" around a tree for watering in to - you can either build a small wall (as I do) or dig a trench - (invasive)
Yes your clay can compact - but if you are treating it correctly it shouldn't.
Time: 11th January 2011 9:58pm
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About the Author amanda19
Geraldton Mid West WA
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Brad says...
What I meant is if you dig a hole (any size) and fill it with non-clay soil, then the clay surface that the water sees looks like (this formatting was the best I can do quickly - looks different depending on browser Internet Explorer seems good)
___ ___
Time: 12th January 2011 12:15am
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Original Post was last edited: 12th January 2011 11:07am
G hill,Perth
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View All Brad2's Edible Fruit TreesCharles cant spell says...
Not that your art isn't awesome Brad :) but I think this should clear up the point.
Pictures - Click to enlarge
Picture: 1
Time: 12th January 2011 1:51am
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Perth Innaloo
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View All Charlesstillcantspell1's Edible Fruit Treesamanda says...
Groovy pics! but I think ringlestrumpf was actually asking if these "mounds" could turn out to be a disadvantage in a subsequent drought? Have I understood that right ringle?
Time: 12th January 2011 2:29am
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Geraldton Mid West WA
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View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Treesringelstrumpf says...
Exactly, Amanda and who cannot wait for the next drought when Brisbane is under water? Mean the weather gets weird.
I read about the swales it is mentioned as a measure against drought but for me it logically would help against too much water as well. However, I would have to limit the size a bit to what could be done by one-women and one shovel (husbands list is too long that he could help).
The not-to-do thing is what I exactly did for the vegetable garden. Wasn't perhaps a good idea, but so far the stuff is growing (in the parts where the slugs are stuffed), but there might be a huge difference because of the root depth. Hopefully it will work.
And I did it for some trees, which are doing good so far. But we don't have real clay. We have fill with clay and sometimes there are a lot of stones, i remember while had digging the tree bed that there hasn't been that much clay.
I heaped what I shoveled out at the side of the tree bed to create some sort of windbreak which is planted with lucerne so far as an animal fodder, I want to plant tagasaste there for the same reasons. My tagasaste seeds didn't germinate and I think it is too late in the year now.
I want to make something like suggested in the drawings for planting two Avocado trees. A mound maybe 2.5 m across and 7 meters long. I will put woody materials on the bottom, then lawn clippings (from a lawn mowing company) and then soil, compost etc. Maybe I use some stones to shape the thing a bit. On the wind exposed side I want to plant shrubs, maybe tagasaste and on the down slope, maybe a meter or so above ground Avocados. The nursery man told me that only "Bacon" grow in the Upper Mountains (-5
Time: 12th January 2011 11:27am
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About the Author ringelstrumpf1
Blue Mountains
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View All ringelstrumpf1's Edible Fruit Treesamanda says...
Ringle - I don't think your mounds will be a disadvantage - you would be watering from the top in a drought anyway wouldn't u? A very slow trickle would be the way to go perhaps - it would allow more contact time.
It's tricky trying to plan for both I would imagine - but I must say it's probably been easier for me to keep my trees going over these consecutive 39
Time: 12th January 2011 12:11pm
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Geraldton Mid West WA
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View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Treesringelstrumpf says...
What will happen with all these flooded trees? Will at least some survive?
This beautiful Moreton Bay Figs for example.
Time: 12th January 2011 6:48pm
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About the Author ringelstrumpf1
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View All ringelstrumpf1's Edible Fruit TreesBrendan says...
When I planted my avocados in clay, I first dug a hole (as in Charles C S drawing above, left hand side). All the soil/clay from the hole was mixed with lots of gypsum in a wheelbarrow, then put back in the hole! Then I made mounds ABOVE this, and planted the trees, as in Charles C S drawing again, right hand side :-)
So far so good.
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Time: 15th January 2011 8:27am
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View All Brendan's Edible Fruit TreesDiana says...
The UQ flood assistance network asked for helpers to clear silt from around trees along the river yesterday. Proporty and facilities was worried that they would start to die from collar rot, and bobcats can't get next to the trunk so they needed people with shovels. Lots of helpers got this done yesterday I think (I could only go for a couple of hours). Perhaps this wasn't so urgent for casuarinas and figs that naturally grow along river banks?
PS the UQ city cat stop normally has a walkway between the bank and the pontoon.
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Time: 21st January 2011 9:57am
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