Panama Gold Ungrafted (forum)

au0rey starts with ...
I have a panama gold ungrafted which was subject to chewing in the nights. I have dug it up and potted it and since then things have improved.

Have prepared a spot right in front of my shed where there is good sunshine and will make a trellis against the shed wall.

I read that I can put a piece of animal offal into the hole during the planting and this provides iron. Anyone of you does that? I have added lots pelletised rooster manure and thinking of throwing some worms in as well.

What else does passionfruit need?

Would appreciate any advice from passionfruit experts. Thanks!
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2

Time: 24th December 2009 9:55am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
melbourne
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Brendan says...
Hi au0rey,
The 'guru' up here says never ever put anything, especially fertilizer, in the planting hole. It's too strong and will kill the new roots and probably kill your vine. If it's already been dug in, you'll have to wait at least 2 months before planting. To speed things up, dig in lots of gypsum where you intend to plant the passionfruit vine.

Also, rooster manure contains a fair bit of nitrogen, which you passionfruit does not want. All that will do is give you a big bushy vine that won't bear fruit. After your vine has been growing for about 9 to 12 months, give it some Sulphate of Potash, that will make it bear. Good luck. Oh, and don't forget to mulch around your vine, say out to 1.2m, if you can.

Time: 25th December 2009 8:14am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
#UserID: 1947
Posts: 1722
View All Brendan's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
HI Brendan, thanks! I hope that was not what happened to my beefsteak tomato bush...rooster manure...lots flowers no fruits so i have already uprooted it..okay i will take note for my passionfruit vine. Thanks and Merry Christmas!

Time: 25th December 2009 2:53pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Melbourne
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Brendan says...
Hi au0rey,
I forgot to mention, passionfruit vines like to live on the 'dry side' of moist. so please don't over water him.

Time: 27th December 2009 8:09am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
#UserID: 1947
Posts: 1722
View All Brendan's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi au0rey, I have 8 passionfruit vines and I have noticed that the ones that are performing the best are in areas where there is loads of organic matter.

These ones have had lots of cow n sheep poo, aged woodchip, coco peat etc - pretty much anything I can get my hands on (and worms too) I also leave all the leaf litter under mine - as passionfruit have shallow root sytems - I think his helps to keep the soil cool n moist.

I very rarely feed mine to be honest...just some potash now n then like Brendan says and maybe some blood n bone after harvest/pruning. I think maybe the constant slow release of food from the OM suits the constant growing habits of the vine. I get good flowering and fruit set.

Time: 27th December 2009 12:07pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Hi Amanda, thanks for the input. When you refer to sheep/cow poo, are you talking about composted ones? If pelletised rooster manure is too much, how about composted chix manure?

And what is OM?

I was thinking of burying a liver at the planting hole which i read somewhere but if i throw some worms into the holes, i reckon they would not like the liver...just a thought...haha

Thanks!

Time: 27th December 2009 9:30pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Melbourne
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi au0rey, I give all my fruit trees etc about 2/3 of a wheelbarrow full of aged cow or sheep poo every winter. OM is just short for "organic matter".

I don't use chicken manure at all. Pellet manures ok - they are slow release - but the don't add the bulk organic matter (OM) that act as soil improvers.

Time: 27th December 2009 11:06pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
If pellet dont add the bulk OM, does that mean they break down more slowly than aged cow manure? How about soaking the pellets in water to soften them before using?

Brendan talked about too much N in rooster manure which cause lots leaves but no flowers/fruits...

When you talk about pellet manure, are you refering to chix?

Thanks Amanda!

Time: 28th December 2009 10:35pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Melbourne
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi au0rey, Chicken pellet manure is concentrated - so the NPK value will be higher by weight than bulk manure. It's ok stuff to use but it doesn't add the bulky OM to your soil - which acts as a conditioner/improver.

Slow release is good - I wouldn't soak them myself. I don't know which one would break down faster.

By adding bulky OM to your soil you are making it a better place for all the good soil microbes to live and thrive. They do many jobs that greatly benefit your plants and they will be healthier for it. Artificial fertilisers don't do this - so if you were to rely on these exclusively your soil would eventually become a problem.

Pellet manure is good in moderation - I use it too - but as a supplement to OM - not to replace it. I don't use a lot of chick' products because of my soil salinity issues - but more blood n bone + 10% potash.

What kind of soil do you have? sandy, loam, clay?

Time: 29th December 2009 11:11am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Charles says...
auOrey,

Try and get hold of a large bag or several (I buy 4 at a time) of dry sheep poo (non processes dry balls with some fine squished stuff usually). This should be avaliable from City Farmers or your equivalent over there (I pay $12 for a waist high sack). You can apply this liberally as it is pretty low Nitrogen bulkwise. We have crappy sandy soils so I vertually mulch with sheep manure around my plants and in the garden bed.

My routine now is, wet the hole several times, then add a little sheep poo, little compost, handfull of bloodnbone, handfull of kitty litter (basically clay) and miX the bottem of the hole. Then I add a large spinkle of water holding crystals (so I can water half as often) and so the drip reticulation is more effective in the sandy soil.
Then you half fill the hole with soil, water in well, then fill the hole with the last of the soil. Make a dam so you can keep it well watered to begin with and fill this dam with 2 inches or so debth of sheep poo and a small handfull of BnB. you must keep above the palnt mulched and wet to get the worms and soil biology going, this will do much more for your plant than any processed fertiliser in the long run.

This works for my sandy soil. Essentially we need slow release fertilisers and soil improvers as otherwise all the neutrients just get washed through the sand out of the reach of the plants. Hence liquid foods, high nitrogen processed fertilisers etc just leach straight passed the plant into the ground water and out of reach.

Hope that sheds some light. But as Amanda says without us knowing your soil type its hard to advise.

Cheers,
Charles Otway

Time: 29th December 2009 11:55am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 29th December 2009 11:59am

About the Author Charlesstillcantspell1
Innaloo
#UserID: 2742
Posts: 411
View All Charlesstillcantspell1's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Thanks Amanda and Charles for the detailed information! My soil is clay. I havent seen any sheep poo in bunnings and some nurseries which I have visited but I guess I can look around. Books always talk about chix and cow and pigeon manure...this is really the first time I am encountering sheep's.

Is sheep poo less acidic or lower in N that is why it is your choice of manure? Is sheep poo very different from cow's since they both feed on grass? Just curious.

Talking about blood and bone, is there anything else I can use to provide the same nutrients instead cos I try as much as I can to avoid using blood and bone. I know it comes from abbattoirs but I try to be as humane as I can with my gardening. Moreover, my dog digs blood and bone and even rooster manure from the soil and eats them. Makes my gardening rather challenging. :)

Time: 31st December 2009 12:03pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Melbourne
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Charles cant spell says...
The issue is not the Nitrogen content but the time it takes to release to the soil. Poultry is fast, cattle is slow, slow is better for most applications especially sandy soil due to nuetrient leaching.

Table 2. Nutrient contents of DRY manures and organically approved fertilizer materials. Stolen from http://www.uky.edu/Ag/HLA/manures.htm

Average nutrient composition

Source (percent dry weight)
N P2O5 K2O
Dairy cows 1.3 0.9 3.0
Feedlot cattle 1.7 1.2 3.0
Horse 2.3 0.9 1.7
Poultry 3.2 5.2 1.8
Sheep 3.5 1.4 3.5
Hogs 3.5 0.5 0.7
Goat 1.5 1.5 3.0
Rabbit 2.4 1.4 0.6
Blood meal 13 2.0 1.0
Bone meal, raw 3.0 22.0 --
Cottonseed meal 6.0 0.4 1.5
Fish meal 10.0 6.0 --
Fish emulsion 5.0 2.0 2.0
Feather meal 12.0 0 0
Soybean meal 7.0 1.2 1.5
Tankage* 7.0 10.0 1.5
Sewage sludge* 1.5 1.3 0.4
Sewage slu act* 6.0 3.0 0.2
"soft" rock phosphate
0 16.0 0
Greensand 0 0 3.0
Phytamin 800 7.0 0 0

Time: 31st December 2009 1:35pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 31st December 2009 1:38pm

About the Author Charlesstillcantspell1
Innaloo, Perth
#UserID: 2742
Posts: 411
View All Charlesstillcantspell1's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Wow...thanks Charles!

Time: 31st December 2009 4:07pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Melbourne
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi au0rey, I actually prefer cow poo as it has less weeds (I think this is something to do with their diet and their gut system) But I am able to get feed-lot sheep poo that has lots of lupin pellets mixed in - it's good stuff. I used to use a lot of horse poo as I got it for free from racing stables but it's very weedy.

As you have clay soil - it will hold nutrients a lot longer than our sand. Once you add OM it will perform beautifully for you. Seasol may be a good option for you - it's low in nitrogen and ethical. You can buy bags of organic compost, potting mix, soil conditioners etc - work it into your clay and add some gypsum and worms and it will go off! I have to add clay to my soil :-(

Time: 1st January 2010 11:40am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Hi Amanda, Happy New Year! Yeah things are never perfect right...i have clay and wish it isnt so clay and you have sandy and have to add clay...but fortunately we still can do something to improve things...and with all the help here on the forum, it is definitely a plus for us all.:)

Time: 1st January 2010 5:32pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Happy 2010 to u too au0rey (and all!) I often wonder about clay soils and if there is a more permanent amendment (like crushed pumice stone, river sand etc) that would help to open it up?

Time: 1st January 2010 6:37pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Brendan says...
Hi amanda,
Powdered gypsum is the answer for clay soils, it even has the words 'Clay Breaker' on the bag.

Only trouble, I'm going through about 1 / 25kg bag per week!

Happy 2010 too.

Time: 2nd January 2010 9:32am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
#UserID: 1947
Posts: 1722
View All Brendan's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi Brendan, there are two grades of gypsum - the fine white powder and the coarse grain (like sand) one. Which one are u using?
I use the liquid gypsum (I have sand but it is a great help for salinity issues) It's the ducks guts for me! I bought a 20L container and 500mL does all of my 80 trees. It would be great to use in conjunction with the longer lasting coarse grain gypsum, on clay soils.

Time: 2nd January 2010 10:23am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Brendan says...
Hi amanda,
The powdered gypsum I use, I buy from bunnings, ~$13.50 for 25kg.

It's Richgro brand and has 80% fine, and 20% coarse material. It's GOOD stuff.

More info, It's from WA, lot 186 Acourt Road, Canning Vale, 6155. Ph. (08) 9455 1323.

It's probably just down the road from you :-)

Time: 4th January 2010 8:42am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
#UserID: 1947
Posts: 1722
View All Brendan's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hiya Brendan - yup about 500km's south! I was able to order the very coarse grain from my rural supplier (25kg) - I mentioned it because I noticed that it had good staying power and I could still see the bigger grains in the gound a year later. I thought it may be good in your heavy rainfall - when it comes!


Time: 4th January 2010 11:07am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Hi Amanda, Brendan and Charles, I have planted my passionfruit panama gold ungrafted into the ground but raised the ground a bit with purchased compost and manure...so far it has transplanted well. Fingers crossed, nothing has attacked its leaves so far.

Just wondering if you can advise if I need to prune the vine to make it grow across the trellis/bushier? Is there a need or should I just let it keep climbing?
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2

Time: 18th January 2010 1:37pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Sorry to add, the pictures are taken when the vine was just planted. It has grow a bit more upwards already. Thanks!

Time: 18th January 2010 1:38pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Brad says...
Hi Au0rey, you can train a passionfruit in a variety of ways or pretty much leave it initially. It depends what you want from the eventual vine. According to my reading, commercial growers train them up onto horizontal wires, a bit like grapes.

If you want it to branch out, tip prune the leaders. I'm training my nelly kelly up to a 1.8m top wire. The below photos from my-edibles are about 8 days old and already I'm nearing the top wire and will pinch out the tip, as I only have one climbing stem, but need to go left and right


Once trained to the top wires I assume the occasional tip prune will encourage branches which I'll let drop down, but then prune for flowering in later years

Time: 18th January 2010 2:20pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 18th January 2010 2:21pm

About the Author Brad2
Como, Perth
#UserID: 2323
Posts: 762
View All Brad2's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Hi Brad, my passionfruit's two leaders are doing well...Ehh I am beginning to think that they will probably be running all over the shed roof and as you can see there is a green fence behind the shed...Can you see the possibility of the vines crawling over the shed and to the fence? I wonder if a lattice could be slotted over the fence as there is a strip of wood over the fence...

If I give the leaders a good pruning and it starts giving side shoots, do I still get fruits? Do passionfruits fruit on new growth? I am trying to delay it from growing all over the place due to space constraint. Thanks!
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3

Time: 11th February 2010 2:08pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Brad says...
Hi again. A passionfruit will be bigger than your frame. What do you mean by space constraints? there's nothing on the wall or shed (I can't see a door)

if you prune it back to that frame, you'll invite overcrowding, fungal problems etc. Much better encouraging it across to the fence. It will get there in its second year if you feed and water well. you'll more easily see fruit if it goes across a wire along the side of the shed rather than the roof. might depend how much light is available there and whether there's a door.

passionfruit flower on new growth, but yours might still be another summer away from fruiting.

Mine reached the top wire, and got pinched out. I'd gotten use to rapid climbing so its feeling really slow waiting for the top 2 branches to get going. They're coming on now , but only a few cms. Hopefully when a couple tendrils grow and take hold it'll take off again.

Time: 11th February 2010 5:48pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Brad2
Como, Perth
#UserID: 2323
Posts: 762
View All Brad2's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Hi Brad, thanks for your reply. The shed door is just right to the trellis so definitely cannot go right. I am a bit concerned with the vine going up the roof though a ladder can always reach it, the summer heat on the metal shed roof will probably cook the vine.

Wires on the shady part of the shed's side...I think I can think along that line and train it over to the fence. Since the main trunks are getting sun, i suppose part shade for the shoots should be ok. Thanks!

Time: 13th February 2010 1:53pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Charles cant spell says...
It might not suit the look you want but if it was me I would get some sort selftapping metal screws (hex screws) from the hardware store and put in a few 6-8 screws on the corners of the shed and maybe 1 meter of the ground. Buy your self 3-4 meters of ringlock fence, large hole chicken wire and use that as you trellis. While the lattice is nice the passionfruit will completely cover it and you wont see it anyway. And the latice is so small that you wouldbt ever be pruning it back so far that you would see the lattice.

The idea is put in the screw on the existing face of the shed, around the corner (shaded side) and more into the ridge cup of the fence. You then hang a continuous sheet of ringlock/chicken wire all the way around with the screw "holding it up every 1/2 meter.

Might pay to have a look at a few pictures of passionfruit vines so you get some idea of the size the plant need to get to be viable/happy.

Time: 13th February 2010 9:01pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Charlesstillcantspell1
Perth Innaloo
#UserID: 2742
Posts: 411
View All Charlesstillcantspell1's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
au0rey - if all goes well that vine is going to get big! If you prune it after harvest (very early spring) each year - this may help to control it. They fruit on new growth so it works well.
Have u thought of an overhead trellis to the left of the shed perhaps? They are great in that the fruit hangs down under the trellis - easy picking! It also makes use of your space better....just a thought.

Time: 15th February 2010 10:35am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Charles cant spell says...
Nice idea, maybe I should have done that. I would just worry about the density, heavy shade and the pruning :P. Would need to keep it pruned to get dappled shade and allow the fruit to still hang down.

Time: 15th February 2010 3:15pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Charlesstillcantspell1
Perth Innaloo
#UserID: 2742
Posts: 411
View All Charlesstillcantspell1's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi Charles - dunno!? A friend of mine grows them like this always - she doesn't fuss over them at all. I don't think fruit needs direct sun to ripen? My p'fruit are buried under foliage and still ripen.


Time: 15th February 2010 8:50pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
Thanks charles and amanda for your suggestions! Amanda, are you referring to those lattice which we slot over existing fence?

Time: 16th February 2010 4:12pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

au0rey says...
If that is what you are referring to, that means vine is going to grow over to neighbour's side as well...do i need to seek their permission about putting up a lattice and vines growing onto their side? If there is pruning to be done, i may have to go over to their garden?

Time: 16th February 2010 4:15pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi au0rey - I am referring to a pergola basically....like grape vines are often grown - up a post then horizontal over the pergola/trellis. (is on your property too then)
It's always best to ask your neighbour for the sake of good relationships - maybe they might miss the sun etc.. u never know.

Time: 16th February 2010 9:33pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees