Premature leaf drop (forum)

amanda starts with ...
Please help forum-ites!? This is a pic of a leaf off my peach, nectarine and Japanese plum trees...what is wrong with them? They are dropping off the tree at slow but steady pace? They look almost like autumn leaves to me - quite coloured? There are no bugs on the trees at all. I am getting a bit stressed about it - any advice please?
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Time: 28th September 2009 11:42am

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About the Author amanda19
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Dekka says...
Hi Amanda,

At first glance I would say Potassium deficiency but with your salt issues I would say Magnesium is being displaced by high amounts of Calcium or (more likely) Clorides. Epsom salts probably won't hurt things further, so try that first. What colour is the new growth?

Time: 28th September 2009 12:09pm

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amanda says...
Hey Dekka - I had a feeling u might know whats going on here!? I have just come back from the orchard with pics of the plums that are dropping...I gave one tree epsom salts and the other epsom salts and a little urea (was all I could work out from my deficiency bible...) I don't normally use urea like this but wanted a quick result/answer..? Hope it was not a bad choice...

The plum trees are quite chlorotic looking to me - the older leaves are doing this first but the young leaves not far behind. The nectarine same - but not dropping fruit (yet..). The peach tree is a nice healthy green and hardly affected (yet...) and is not dropping fruit. Interestingly - there is a maturing gedys compost bin about 1-1.5 m away from the peach tree...?

The citrus and young strawberry guavas are also dropping leaves.

I am still trying to understand this SARS value with the water - the agronomist couldn't nail it for me - but said it's something to do with the Ca, Mg and Na...? I think u may have it right in that upping the Ca and Mg might help as u have suggested?

Thanks heaps for your input - I really appreciate it.. :)
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Time: 28th September 2009 12:46pm

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amanda says...
Hiya Dekka .. this is taken from agronomist e-mail:

I showed him your results and he made a few comments. There are some other features of the results that i dont know much about but he explained it a bit to me. The SAR of your water means that the potential of your water to cause accumulation of Na in the soil is high. I believe this is something to do with the ratio of Ca , Mg is to the Na. As a result there is much more Na than Ca and Mg which all compete for fixing points in the soil. Ca will bond the strongest but when theres not enough to push the Na aside then the Na will build up. Meaning regular gypsum applications.

From what i understand if the ratio was more favourable it means even though water may be quite high in salt, if the water also has high Ca and Mg they will bond to the soil before Na does, thus leaving the Na free to be flushed. Meaning that some salty waters can be used easier than other salty waters.

ME:
I will need to test the soil under a canopy I think... it will not bode well if there is high Na and Cl after all the rain we have had..

I noticed that a lot of the fruit have the brown blossom ends too? I am not sure what that means...maybe lack of Ca?

The plum trees are (...were!!) carrying a very, very heavy crop.

I have never had so many problems getting things to grow :( It's very frustrating! With more experience with my conditions I hope to get there tho' :)

To make things more confusing - the Biolytix has had major problems requiring lots of hypochlorite put thru it over last few weeks - it was pumped off into the paddock - but who knows how much may have made it thru the retic anyway...argghhh!!!

Time: 29th September 2009 10:38am

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Dekka says...
Very interesting, Amanda. What's your pH near the suffering trees? Maybe you'd be best to add Dolomite for Ca & Mg and then lower the pH with some peat moss and/or compost. I certainly don't envy your situation.

Time: 29th September 2009 6:28pm

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amanda says...
Hi Dekka - I bit the bullet and shelled out the $ for the GypFlo (liquid gypsum)2day - it goes thru the ferigation system and is very fine, concentrated and fast acting.

I also got some liquid trace elements - think I will do a foliar feed and see how they go.

If I wait to work out what's missing I will lose the crops, I think. I will have to get more testing done b4 next yrs crops!

I realised 2day that the woodchip mix I put on them in late winter is now under a mound of kelp - I may even have nitrogen draw down too...?

The pH is 7 (from soil test lab)

Ah well - at least the hail didn't eventuate 2day and finish the job :)))

Time: 29th September 2009 7:26pm

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amanda says...
Hi all - plum tree 2day...
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Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3

Time: 4th October 2009 10:37am

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amanda says...
And Nectarine tree 2day (see plums above too) I have posted all this and if I ever find out what's going on I will post the answer - u never know - it might happen to someone else!?
I am 99% certain it is a deficiency - there are no bugs on the trees, no wounds, no gum leaking etc....

There is small twig die back on the peach, apricot and nectarine but not plums. Only the stone fruit are doing this and they happen to be the only trees with fruit ..and lots of it. I wonder if stonefruit need a lot of some element when they are cropping?

PS - is the nectarine carying too much fruit? It's 2.5yrs old and about 1.5m tall?
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Time: 4th October 2009 10:50am

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amanda says...
Boron deficiency??? after some agronomist input and much research this is starting to pan out as a (primarily) boron deficiency.....

One of the give-aways is the brown centre of the fruits above - which is called "internal corking"... (as opposed to external corking!?)...when this is associated with calcium deficiency - the symptoms do not usually show until fruit mature, or in storage. With boron deficiency - it is apparent in the young fruits and there is excessive fruit drop (as with mine).

There is also excessive twig/terminal shoot die back as symptoms appear in the youngest leaves first. Red colours common.

There can be a failure to break dormancy and/or a refusal to grow. It is more common in sandy soils as boron is easily leached. Deficiency can occur suddenly when there high demand or dry conditions.

There are other indicators - but these are the one's most apparent in my situation.

There is also some evidence that boron assists in the uptake of calcium and that boron def'y can be confused with nitrogen def'y.

Phew...that's it. I hope this helps someone else one day!? :)

Time: 6th October 2009 11:39am

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amanda says...
And the plot thickens...these are the new leaves from the tomatoe plants in the orchard..has anyone seen this b4? It's all getting very weird..
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Time: 7th October 2009 9:49am

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Jantina says...
Morning Amanda, have you checked out any of your tomato leaves with a magnifying glass? Some sucking pests are very hard to see.I hope you find the solution soon,it's such a downer when plants do this after all your hard work and TLC. Don't be discouraged it's all a learning curve.

Time: 7th October 2009 10:05am

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Dekka says...
Hey Amanda,
Are these any good to you?

http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/health/4250.html

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_causes_leaf_curl_on_tomato_plants

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/min-def/tomatoes.htm


Time: 7th October 2009 2:06pm

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amanda says...
Thanks Dekka - good info there. I am at a loss.. but how is this for scary..the agronomist mentioned 2-4-D herbicide damage also - but said the spray drift can be up to 10kms from the point of origin! I don't think this is the cause of all my problems (as trees outside Biolytix zone ok) but it's not good to even have to think of someone elses chemicals poisoning my plants!

Time: 8th October 2009 10:10am

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amanda says...
Boron Deficiency article: I found this amazing document on Boron mobility in plants for anyone who is interested...something I never knew at least..a bit full on - but highlights how much we have still to learn about higher plant growth! :)

http://www.borax.com/agriculture/files/an204.pdf

Time: 9th October 2009 1:35pm

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amanda says...
Problem solved....unfortunately it was to far gone to do it organically but anyway - the trees looking great now. I did a liquid gypsum and big water flush...a week later I gave them a feed with calcium nitrate (thru retic) followed by Hi-Trace (thru retic) which has boron in it.

New growth is normal and the plums have stopped doing whats in the photo (which is what boron deficiency does)
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Time: 1st November 2009 10:05am

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amanda says...
Ta Da! what a difference some boron makes..here is the same tree now! amazing....
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Time: 15th November 2009 11:30am

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Jantina says...
You must be sleeping better now! Just goes to show what a complex web nature is.

Time: 15th November 2009 12:06pm

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amanda says...
Yea Jantina... I must admit I am blown away by the response. I really wanted to do all this organically - but I realise that a combination of the two methods of fertilising is the best for my conditions. Organics in winter and weak liquids (artificial and organic) in summer.

If that's the worst thing I do - it's not so bad? I am very lucky that I have NO fruit fly! :-) so no pesticide use here at all.

I have just broken out my mega-brew of seaweed and lucerne pellets (plus some wee!) Will be interested in the response from the trees!

Time: 15th November 2009 10:14pm

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