Problems with White Sapotes *Pics included* (forum)

J starts with ...
I recently put my reinecke commercial, Ortega and vista white sapotes in the ground (last two weeks of autumn). All plants are over 1 and 1/2 years of age. The vista is fine but the reinecke and Ortega seem to be dropping leaves and developing black spots and what seems to be rust (in the reineckes case) all over their leaves. I've taken some photo's of the ortega attached to this Post.

Is this normal for melbourne winter? I've spraying the trees with copper sulphate and yates anti root rot and I've given them two applications of seasol since planting. Is there something I'm doing wrong, or is it normal for white sapotes to drop leaves and get spots/rust during melbourne winter?

My other white sapotes in pots (2 pikes, Wilson and 1 ortega) seem to be doing fine, but another younger (3rd) pike in a pot is dropping leaves at an alarming rate. It's the only white sapote I got from daleys while all others are from Vic/SA. I've placed it under cover so frost and wind can't get to it, any other suggestions for this younger pike?
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3
Picture: 4

Time: 17th June 2010 5:50pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(1) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
People who Like this Answer: Luke :)

About the Author J
Belgrave, Vic
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
You'll be doing pretty good if you can kill a White sapote in Melbourne, it might not be the most healthy white sapote in the world but it's fine, a few spots here and there wont matter, it's been pretty cold after all.

Any leaves that were grown on the plants in another climate will be thrown off too, that's pretty standard, Victoria is much harsher in both Summer and Winter than the weather they have up North, the new adapted set will be fine. I don't know why you are spraying them? white sapotes don't get any diseases that I know of down here and don't get root rot at least unless you have it the growing in the middle of a swamp in standing water?

Best thing is just to plant them and throw as much chicken manure on them as you can get your hands on





Time: 17th June 2010 10:25pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland. Vic
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
+ Very tough tree they are and by far the easiest of all the "rare" fruits to grow in Victoria, maybe even more so than Avocado but that might be debatable, might also be debatable to call Avocado rare down here anymore :)

Pike never grows very big it just kinda hangs on the ground a bit messy like this one I have

http://img.skitch.com/20100510-g52dexj5n65nxgte48iimms26r.jpg

Time: 17th June 2010 10:28pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 17th June 2010 10:33pm

About the Author Jason
Portland. Vic
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
I read somewhere that they are magnesium hungry. The symptoms are blotchy yellowing, which is what mine is starting to show on the new growth. Epsom salts might be the answer. Yours to me doesn t look like typical magnesium deficiency, you could try spraying a week solution on the leaves? Hopefully you ll get a responce from one of the gurus that frequent here.

Time: 17th June 2010 11:02pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi J, the leaves are very yellow looking for a sapote? (or is it the camera settings..) what is the pH of the soil?

Time: 18th June 2010 11:36am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I've given all my white sapotes seasol and dynamic lifter as fertilizer.

The soil that I planted the some of the sapotes in is a mixture of black hills soil from the dandenongs and potting mix with some gypsum thrown in.

Not sure about the Ph level amanda, but the potting mix I use has neutral ph, I believe.

Its interestinng my potted white sapotes haven't developed black spots but the leaves have gone light green (from their usual dark green). The leaves aren't yellow though. Is this still a lack of magnesium or is because of winter?

I will take some more pictures shortly of the potted plants.

Thanks for the pics jason, thats is fine looking pike. look forward to my pikes getting like that (hopefully).

Time: 18th June 2010 2:17pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, Vic
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I think they look fine, just a little yellow but not in any danger of dying or anything like that, they are only young trees and only just been put in the ground. All these things are stressing.

If you give them some general citrus fertiliser in the spring to wake them up I bet they will grow really well this Spring/Summer. Just treat them like a citrus because they are heavy feeders. I wouldn't be adding any weird stuff to them, just either Chicken manual or normal chemical fertiliser, give them a season in the ground and see what they look like then. You probably want the longest leaves on most varieties to be about 20cm in length, that's a safe size to aim for, slowly build up the fertiliser until they are pushing leaves like that

Time: 18th June 2010 4:02pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland. Vic
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks Jason, so wait till spring to fertilise. So there's no point in fertilising now at all?

I've also put up some labeled pictures of my other potted and planted white sapotes.

Potted White sapote 1 & 2 are two year old trees from Perrys in SA, that have fruited already. Their leaves have gone light green since winter kicked in. Not much leaf drop

Potted Ortega is one and half years old from perrys. No fruit. Again some leaves have gone light green, small amount of leaf drop and a few black spots here and there. Not as many black spots compared to the Planted ortega in the pics in my first post.

Potted Wilson is 1 year old. Got him at a little shop at a plant Expo. Cold doesn't seem to bother this guy. Very slow growing. No leaf drop.

Planted vista is 2 years old, no fruit, from Perrys. Leaves are going light green but not much leaf drop and the young leaf growth seems to be doing ok, some have curled a little.

Planted Reinecke Commercial is ? years old. No fruit. Got from Poyntons in essendon. Was doing well in summer but since planting and winter has dropped a lot of leaves and is developing some "rust" on others. I'm assuming this isn't a seedling and is a grafted, even though its thin and spindly and 2 metres tall.

Potted Pike 3 is about 1 year old or so from Daleys. Major leaf drop (about 40%) all older leaves. New growth seems ok, but some of it is slightly curved. Sorry about the lack of light in the photo's but it is now under the cover of the balcony due to the windy weather over the last few days, which may have helped with the leaf lost.


So there you have it. All my white sapotes. Whats the general consensus? They'll be fine and wait it out for spring and fertilize like crazy?
I plan on having all the Potted sapotes in the ground during the first week of spring. Holes being dug now. What do yall think?
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3
Picture: 4
Picture: 5
Picture: 6
Picture: 7
Picture: 8
Picture: 9
Picture: 10
Picture: 11
Picture: 12
Picture: 13
Picture: 14
Picture: 15
Picture: 16
Picture: 17
Picture: 18
Picture: 19
Picture: 20

Time: 18th June 2010 6:41pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, Vic
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Wow that's a lot of pictures to digest :). Yep they all like fine. Each variety do look a bit different and a bit different colour. Ortega is always more yellow than most of the others, you don't have a Chris? but for example it's one that looks half dead all the time, it's just the way it is.

I find Vista and Pike to be almost identical fruit. But the Vista tree is a bit more upright. Rienecke is a very upright growing tree, it's will probably be your best looking tree so put that in the display position in the garden :) it has a really nice colour to it, but mine needs more fertilizer to flower and fruit for some reason compared to the other varieties. It also usually takes a long time to flower and fruit. Mine's 9 years old and only just cropping for the first time now. It's also the first year I've gone heavy with chemical fertiliser on it. Coincidence or not I don't know :).

My Pike made only tiny un fertilised fruit for many years and then once I got an Ortega and Vernon to pollinate it, it's been fruiting well ever since. Vernon will fruit almost as soon as you graft it on.

I'd plant them all now, since in the ground is always better than a pot but it you want to wait until late August or the start of September that's fine. But Sapotes are capable of slow growth even in Victorias Winter so anytime is ok (mine are still flowering and growing fruit right now).

They really do enjoy lots of food, I've found without much fertiliser they mostly only flower in late Spring or early Summer, if you get a bit more serious on them they will flower in Autumn once it starts raining and Spring once it warms up and maybe even almost year round. But to me it seems as it flowering can be triggered from either warming/longer days and rain after a dry period.

I used to only use Chicken manure on them but where I am it's not enough. So I've been using chemicals now, alternating between a general fruit tree mix and then a 20% nitrogen mix, about each 1.5-2 months Spring through late Summer. I'll get you the names of them next time I get some bags if you want, they are just from Pivot, nothing fancy. I wasn't really keen on it at first hence the chicken manure :) but really everythings doing so much better now and I'm not going to live forever, so I decided better to have chemical fertiliser and fruits than no fruits at all and I don't seem to have killed any Kangaroos let alone Frogs :) so I'm cool with it for now. I will fertilise them again in the last week of August with the 20% nitrogen mix (well maybe on the bigger trees only since it'll still be raining then and the more mild stuff on the smaller trees) to try and push a heavy growth flush through Spring and earlier Summer before the ground drys out.

I've also got a seedling to flower for the first time this year also, it's about 8-9 years old. If you want to just concentrate on one plant first so you can have an example plant with dark green leaves of a certain size and see how it grows then you will have a reference for the others so you can match them to that and not go tooo far with your nitrogen, but back in the chicken manure days I used to put.... 10 kgs? on a each sapote when they were like 5 feet tall and never had a problem, that wouldn't be the case in warmer climates but down here you need more juice on them to force things along. I'll try and remember to get a picture of my Reinecke tree tomorrow

I forgot something.. my Pike tree does tend to look ratty and loose most of it's leaves before it grows it's main growth flush, for that particular tree, that's in about the middle of Summer


Time: 18th June 2010 8:22pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 18th June 2010 8:27pm

About the Author Jason
Portland. Vic
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Thank jason - that's a heap of good info on these guys. I have two grafted lemon golds that are powering away and their leaves are a much darker green.

I actually don't give them as much food as the citrus - so I might spoil them a little this winter/spring and see if the 3yr old flowers.

I have had to resort to a synthetic fetiliser also - I use calcium nitrate which doesn't mess around with the pH. I can get a 30kg bag for about $30 - and it lasts my 100 trees all year. I use loads of organic stuff too - but it's just not enough in my sand. Calcium nitrate is what they use in commercial orchards. Apparently fruiting trees need a lot of calcium (agronomist said this)

Time: 20th June 2010 11:12am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
PS Jason, just went out to have a look at mine and look what I found!! How long do they take to grow and ripen do u think? (a bit warmer here than Vic)
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 20th June 2010 11:53am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hey Jason
Thanks for that indepth post. Really helpful. I look forward to the day when my trees can give me two seasons of fruit like yours! Anyway thanks again for checking out the pics. Now I won't stress as much. I'll plant the rest of the potted once in a month or so, because I've got to prepare the planting site some more.

I'd appreciate it if you could let me know what chemical fertiliser you are using.

As far was different varieties go - I'd like to get a Vernon but I'm having difficulty finding a nursery that has some in stock (suggestions appreciated!). I'm also interested in lemon gold as it is a pollinator but I've read its more of a tropical variety. Is this true? Any success stories with lemon gold in vic?

Amanda, that's a really nice suprise, ay? Finding fruit when you don't expect it is always pleasant.

Time: 20th June 2010 2:00pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, Vic
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi J, I think lemon gold might be ok where u are? Mine get blasted with cold southerlies, salt, hot easterlies etc and are so tough! It can get down to 4-6 oC o/night here and they don't lose any condition at all. Lemon gold also self pollinating (as in my pic) I am really pleased with them - they give me no trouble at all. My easiest fruit tree by far.
Can't understand why the fruit not so popular in the shops yet...

PS - i have't found my trees to be needy in any way with respect to NPK or trace elements (and my soil very deficient) so Jason very likely on the money - they probably have the winter blues...

Time: 20th June 2010 10:10pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 20th June 2010 10:17pm

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I'll get the name of the Pivot stuff I'm using tonight, I actually found a bag in the shed yesterday and threw about a kilo on some for a mid winter experiment since they look like they want to continue growing all winter this year. Amanda's calcium nitrate sounds good too.

My soil is about 5.5 ph read loam with iron gravel naturally, Avocados and Sapotes seem to like that PH anyway but it means I have to get pretty heavy on the nitrogen. For sure 95% of these almost sub tropical trees can not survive without human intervention and added fertilizer and water so you have to do what you have to do.

Lemon gold is more tropical than most yes but also I've been told by some Californians that the Australian naming on Lemon gold is wrong and that we either have Lemon gold and Golden globe mixed up or only have Golden globe?. either way what we think is Lemon gold isn't most of the time. Still what we do have is one of the more slightly more tropical ones.

I've not had much luck with it compared to some of the others. But mine is in a bad spot and I think it would be fine in Victoria with a bit better ground under it. I've got pure breed wooly leaf sapotes (the one that's fruited tasted VERY bad). Summer is more of a problem than Winter. That's the same for all varieties really, anything over 38c in Southern Victoria will burn new growth unless the ground is very wet coming into the hot spell, even then they go pretty floppy with 40+c and hot northerly wind.

I have two decent sized Vernon trees, it's very different from Pike, Vernon is one of the varieties that flower from the tips of the branches and have all the fruit hanging on long stems which I think is a very attractive look. Pike, Vista, Reinecke, Mac's Golden flower all over the branches, even on fairly old wood and the fruit is kind in tight clusters all over the tree. All sapotes flower in one of these ways or the other or both? (I think) depending on well.... could be either a sexual thing or wooly leaf genes, but it seems to me all the pollinators make fruit on long stems.

Amanda, from fruit set to mature fruit is about 7-8 months in Southern VIC from the Spring to Winter flowering, the Autumn to Summer crop might be a little slower but not too much (maybe 8-9 months), so it'll be less than that for you :). My Reinecke is in a similar stage right now and is loaded, I'm really looking forward to tasting that one since I've waited so long and it's an Orange fruit. Still I'll try not to get too excited because I've found that as nice as sapotes are you never want to eat more than one or two a day and that means most of them go straight back to the ground they came from.

The only one I've found to be superb (complex) flavoured that you could eat all day is Chris and it's a difficult one to grow that I'm still trying to figure out. My mission for the next couple of years is to try and graft myself up a really strong Chris tree, since it's several times better than any other variety I've tasted. This one would be much easier in a warmer climate I'm sure.

Oh yeah as for finding Vernon, Perry's used to have them, I believe they source them from Birdwood who's Wholesale only and might only sell in bulk. Also that guy in Daylesford who's friends with Sir Glowinski might have some. If all that fails you might have to twist my arm to graft you one, it's defiantly a must have if only for a pollinator. Ortega is a similar tree and useful for the same reason, but Vernon makes bigger fruit

Time: 21st June 2010 12:50pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland. Vic
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hey jason

Thanks again for all this info! It's gold! Looking forward to finding out what fertilizer your using.

I'll try and get a hold of some vernons and if I can't get any, then I may twist your arm :) Its interesting you mentioned vernon's as increasing your fruit size, but I was told vernon's only fruit and flower every alternating year. Interesting. Either way it's a variety I don't have and I'd like to have it if its going to benefit my other trees.

In regards to 40 degree summer days, how did your white sapotes go when we had that nasty spell two summers ago with 4 days in a row of 40 degree days? I water my trees often in the summer, and I'm concerned a bad heat wave might knock them for six.

Time: 22nd June 2010 1:48pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 22nd June 2010 1:56pm

About the Author J
Belgrave, Vic
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hey Jason

I am now the proud owner of two Vernons. They were the last two Perrys had in stock. Thanks again for all the info/advice and even offering to Graft me a vernon!

Time: 15th July 2010 4:10pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
FYI - these guys copped a real hiding on the weekend - 115km/hr winds off the ocean and pelting rain...all the fruit n flowers fine! Does this mean it could be a fruiting windbreak tree perhaps?

J - my trees had a week of 38 - 45 oC days this summer and they were fine. We have had 1.7 - 5 oC for 2 weeks this winter and they fine with that too - still flowering and fruiting.

My ultimate fruit tree :-)
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 15th July 2010 7:27pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Vernon is reputed to be hard to graft . What technique would you use? Marcotting? There was a taste comp some time ago on Cloudforest and I think Subelle and Vernon starred . Chris must be really good to beat out Vernon.

Time: 17th July 2010 2:54pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Here's some links to various tastes test from Tom A and Shawn on the cloudforest

http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/forum/302.html

http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/forum/16171.html

http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/forum/201070689.html

I think there should be at least one more somewhere but I can't find it

Vernon and Subelle are only average on all the taste tests, I think Vernon is just as easy to graft as anything else, I haven't had one fail using the Whip and tongue graft and I'm no expert grafter. The thing about Vernon is that it flowers quickly and is a very good pollinator and that's important to have with sapotes. It's a must have for that reason alone.

Rainbow is the one I want and it's in Australia, but it's proven not so easy to get hold of, but yes aside from not having Rainbow, which may be better, at least a better tree. Chris is in another realm compared to all the others I've tasted. There's are locally selected varieties in New Zealand called WikiWoo and Wookie that supposed to be very good and related to Subelle, I have seedlings of the NZ varieties just getting geared up to flower now after 8 years or so.

There's two main types of fruit with sapotes the caramel type and those with Lemonish flavour (which most people prefer), Vernon, Pike, Ortega and Vista are all your standard Caramel type fruit but Pike has a little bit more of an annoying aftertaste than most (not everyone can taste it), but it also makes lots of fruit so it's something to weigh up. My Reinecke Commercial tree is still flowering now, it made a couple of flowers in Autumn 2004 but didn't fruit then. This year is the first year it's making fruit (planted in 1999 I think) and it's making hugeeee amounts of fruit. It might never do this again, who knows but I'll enjoy it while the going is good.

I forgot to reply about sapotes in the heat, yes the 40+ degree days in Vic with the Northerly winds, they don't like it at all. You have to soak them the night before or all your new growth and leading shoots will look like the blow torch hit them, that happens to my trees most years. I try to get water into the sapotes first on those days since they are more sensitive to it that anything else I grow. Old growth is fine, only the new stuff gets floppy and then burnt off so it's not the end of th e world

Time: 17th July 2010 4:36pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 17th July 2010 4:51pm

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks, Jason. I've read quite a few of your posts on that cloudforest site in regards to Cherimoya and White sapotes. Good stuff.

Is there anyone is Australia that sells the Suebelle? I've read it bears all year round but I can't seem to find it here in oz.

Also, in regards to the Pivot feritizer you have, jason: I've looked online but I can't find any retailers that sell a bag or two of the stuff in melbourne. Any idea's where I can buy some pivot products?

Time: 18th July 2010 10:51pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J, If you go here

http://www.incitecpivotfertilisers.com.au/locate_supplier.cfm

You can find a shop that sells it, I still haven't got around to seeing the name on the 3:2:1 stuff I'm using but I reckon the 20% nitrogen one I alternated it with on the more hungry kind of plants during summer was this one.

Pasture Booster
http://www.incitecpivotfertilisers.com.au/product_search.cfm?ProductId=636&action=viewproduct

There are banana specials also with around 50% nitrogen but that's getting too heavy for most plants, I'm not sure which of the two gave me the extra sapote success with all the extra heavy flowering I've had since but they did want something extra.

I haven't seen Suebelle in Australia, but Vernon isn't too far away from having fruit on it at all times, it flowers for most of the year. Most of the others either flower once in Spring, once in Autumn. Mine are starting to blur the line now and flower from Autumn right through to Spring. Talking about Cherimoyas I'm going to try some things to get them growing better this year now that I seem to have Sapotes and Avocados doing well. I've been holding off on fertilising the Avocados because I don't want them to flower until it's warmer and they are starting to push them up now

Time: 19th July 2010 1:28am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 19th July 2010 1:35am

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks for the links, Jason - I've found a supplier and I will get some before the winter is over.

I've got an order of 5 Fino De Jete Cherimoya trees with from here: http://www.treegrowers.com.au/new_page_6.htm

I couldn't find anyone else outside of daleys that dealt with this cherimoya variety and Daleys coudn't give me any clear idea when they would have any fino' in stock. Do you give the pivot fertilizer to your Cherimoya and citrus trees?

You've got me interested in this "Rainbow" white sapote variety. Please let me know if you have any success finding it.
Having read those Cloudforest links above, you mention that your "vista" trees don't fruit as heavily as your "pikes". I was planning on getting more vista's as a result of Glowinski's recommendation of it. What do you think? Is his tree a one shot that does really well or is the variety better or the same as pikes/ortega when it comes to fruit production?



Time: 19th July 2010 8:23am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Treegrowers are not that easy to deal with. I had 2 years' of attempts to buy Fino from them and each time they gave a feeble excuse for non delivery;the last excuse was "too much rain".

Time: 19th July 2010 10:23am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
 
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi Jason - Re grafting: my lemon gold is grafted onto Neem rootstock - is this what others have too?
I got it thru' a local supplier who sourced it from somewhere else...Casimiroa are classed as sensitive to salinity - but this rootstock must be doing a good job as my trees not affected (unlike most of my subtropicals)

Now I am wondering if it's the rootstock that is ensuring the success of my 2?

Time: 19th July 2010 8:07pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I've never heard of a sapote being grafted onto anything other than sapote, are you sure they are grafted onto something else?. It would look a lot different under the graft if it's not sapote

Time: 20th July 2010 4:26am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Nope - the rootstock had it's own tag saying it was neem...but I have never seen a neem tree (knowlingly at least) does it have a simliar looking trunk pattern?

Time: 20th July 2010 9:40am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Hi amanda, just went and checked my small neem tree (kept in my glasshouse) and the trunk looks much "barkier" (no such word methinks) than the sapote.It's only a young tree so the bark could change as it matures.

Time: 20th July 2010 9:53am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi Jason - the supplier says it was an ex-Daleys plant - who knows - it travelled a long way with 500 plants, 3 or 4 yrs ago - it could have been a re-attached label or such. It seemed odd to me at the time - which i why I asked the question in the first place. The tag is probably lurking down in the planting hole somewhere..oops.

I note Daleys now has both Lemon gold and Golden globe. Is there any way to tell the difference between the two? Daleys are pretty good at getting their varieties right - so I would likely have lemon gold?

Time: 20th July 2010 12:51pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Kert & Amanda: I won't lie to both of you by saying that I didn't laugh at both your posts. However, one of the great things about daleys forum is there is virtually no trolling like other forums around the net. and thats my dr.Phil moment of the day..

Kert: That is worrying information about treegrowers. It was indicated to me that they had lost some cherimoya grafts to root rot but I didn't think that was two years in a row. Either way thanks for the heads up.

Jason: I spoke to someone who sells white sapotes and was advised he currently has a small Suebelle, so there is atleast 1 suebelle in australia! Also, I'd love to swap/buy some of the trees you graft, jason. Please shoot me an email at jmubaraki@hotmail.com if you are interested.

Time: 20th July 2010 7:33pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi J, don't stress - I have deleted the post lest it offend. Must be my odd Aussie sense of humour .. and that's my Dr Phil moment...

PS J.. don't be offended please - but this is 'just' a forum? Growing a sense of humour and tolerance of others is just as important in this world as growing anything else. To be honest I think folk far too 'serious'/politcally correct these days and - I quite like kert actually (despite the many hard times he has given me) but u maybe too new to witness this? ..... He is a bit naughty but also funny and totally obnoxious at times. It's ok with me - so why not with u? Comments not directed at u - so choose to ignore them - it's that simple.

Anyway - sorry for ringing any the alarm bells over the graft...I still don't know the answer - but I don't really care anymore- so heavy is the topic! :-)))

In addition: Dr Phil totally sucks.

Time: 20th July 2010 7:58pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 20th July 2010 11:46pm

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Fino, is probably the best Cherimoya available in Australia, Birdwood might have Pierce also? it's supposed to be good. I went to a huge amount of trouble to actually collect seed in Mexico and Sean did the same in Peru/Ecuador, I don't think either of us ended up with a plant any better than Fino :p, the trees I collected seed from in Mexico were fantastic in Mexico, mango beaters, but haven't turned out so well here. I need to move one tree that came from a fruit that was 2.0kgs in size, since it's in a bad spot and it certainly has the right genetics to be worth keeping :). I'm having a bit of trouble with kangaroos jumping on stuff and eating things lately so I need to make some taller wire guards too.

The Subelle sounds like a good find but I'm sure Rainbow is the one to really chase after. My Vista is flowering a bit better now days but I doubt it's ever going to fruit like Pike does. However it's true Glowinski's Vista tree does make heaps of fruit, I've seen it and it's a good tree. He pulled out his Pike because it was small bendy unimpressive and and struggling looking, but that's just how Pike looks :).

But really there is a huge difference in taste between these green skinned normal sugary kind of sapotes and the flavour champions of the species. I've only tasted two fruit from my Chris tree but it was substantially better than any other sapote I've tasted, I expect Rainbow to be something like that but with a huge fruit. My Reinecke is going to have a lot of fruit ripe this summer, I've never tasted it before but I hope it's better than most (should be).

J, I'm still months and months away from having sapotes grafted ready to leae home since I've only planted the rootstock from this years crop and they are only just comming up, but hopefully I'll be able to graft them by Summer. I have about 100 seed planted, but I still have at least 50 seeds starting to go dry that I just can't fit into more pots or have any room to keep, they need a home asap. I'm going to soak them in some water tomorrow but after I do that they are going to start germinating so let me know if you want some

Time: 21st July 2010 4:39am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Jason, how do you propose to get your hands on Rainbow? (other than seed)

Time: 21st July 2010 9:35am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
suydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
Hey Jason, I'm keen to take some seeds off you. Always keen to pay or trade or whatever. I haven't had the opportunity to taste a sapote of any var as yet, so I'm keen to get my grafted ones fruiting asap. I have two large seedlings, one Reinecke and a Ortego.

Time: 21st July 2010 9:56am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author John Mc
 
#UserID: 3496
Posts: 132
View All John Mc's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hi Jason,
Birdwood have no Cherimoya at all and Daleys won't have Fino de jete for a long while.
Perrys have Southern Knight (which is pierce I believe?)and another variety from uruguay. I'll probably end up getting a few off them as well.
I'd love those seeds, but I don't know how to graft (yet), so they would be somewhat wasted on me.
I'd love to buy/swap some Fino De Jete Cherimoya (if you are grafting those) and some Chris white sapotes off you, Jason. Please feel free to send me and email at jmubaraki@hotmail.com and we can chat some more.

Edit: Hey amanda, I took no offense to either of your posts. I found them amusing, not offensive. I didn't know you and Kert had a pre-existing relationship in having friendly goes at each other online. I just read the posts as Kert trolling you and you responding. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was just trying to keep the thread on topic. Maybe we can start a fun thread where you & kert (& whoever else) can hurl funny insults at each other. :)

Time: 21st July 2010 10:32am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 21st July 2010 11:07am

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Good idea ,J. I'll start by asking Amanda to give her views on "magnetised water" ;it's kinda illuminating.

Time: 21st July 2010 1:31pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hey Jason - have u tried the lemon gold by any chance? (or - anyone out there?) I chose it after reading Glowinski's report. I'm not a big fan of overly sweet fruit. I have been thinking of pulling my 2 lemon golds up when we move...but it's a big job - maybe I should just start afresh if these guys not so great?

J - funny idea! - the only trouble is kert would give me a hiding in verbosity! ;-)
Anyway - I didn't know there was a "trolling" problem in forums (I haven't been on any others..they are too time consuming for me)..but that's kinda creepy?? wonder what a psych' would make of it...


Time: 21st July 2010 8:06pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
The SA Rare Fruit Society have Rainbow and Suebelle listed amongst their varieties, although trying to get hold of scion wood from them is like asking for the Hope Diamond, even if you're a member, unless you live in Adelaide.

Time: 21st July 2010 9:36pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I used to be a member of SA rare fruit, I was hoping some members would be close to the border but in the end they were all in Adelaide and seemed to keep in their only little area/world so I never did meet any of them or swap any wood. But they do have rainbow and I saw plenty of pictures of it on their site when I was a member. Jantina is a member so I'm hoping she can infiltrate and get some scions :)

I don't have any Cherimoya seed since I haven't bothered pollinating them lately. John MC how can I contact you to get an address so I can send some sapote seed.

Amanda I have a supposed Lemon Gold, but I'm never going to get fruit from it unless I move it and I've probably left it too late for that (it's not in a good spot)

Time: 22nd July 2010 2:48am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 22nd July 2010 8:29am

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Yes good idea Jason, Jantina may be the way to go. Hope she can put me on her waiting list!!

Time: 22nd July 2010 5:19am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I hope so :), if someone can get me some wood I can graft it to a fairly decent sized seedling, then chop everything else off and get lots of wood pretty quick. I grafted a bit of Mac's Golden into the side of a big seedling once, that grew out really quickly, now it's kind of a sideways tree out of the side of a tree :p

Time: 22nd July 2010 8:32am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
The SA people must have got Rainbow
from somewhere ;maybe they would unbend sufficiently to share that info.
On another topic > we experienced a frost event of minus 2.5 C and hereis what happened to unprotected ,young plants
No damage - cherimoya ,white sapote grumichama, jaboticaba feijoa, ice cream bean,green sapote
Minor browning of leaves -mango, jackfruit.
major browning of leaves -marula
Dead- papaya.

Time: 22nd July 2010 9:18am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(1) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
People who Like this Answer:
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Ta Jason. If my fruit ever develop I will let u know. I was surprised that both of mine flowered at the same time and so prolifically - given that one is nearly 4 and the other only 1 year old...I wonder why the 4yr has not flowered b4 this.
It has been a freezing and dry winter, by our standards. Ah the mysteries of flowering never cease to surprise!?

Time: 22nd July 2010 9:27am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Amanda if the food and weather is right pretty much all of them will flower together. I had a lot of sapotes that had done nothing in years even seedlings all flower this last Autumn, they have been flowering from then until now and are still going.

Kert I have an old wholesale catalogue from birdwood and they used to carry.

Reineckie, Golden Globe, Lemon Gold, McDill, Smathers, Candy, Denzler, Mac's Golden, Dade, Ortego(a), and Vernon

I've never heard of Candy or Denzler. I have all the others in various stages of goodness or disaster apart from McDill which is supposed to be a huge fruit. I know Daleys has never stocked Rainbow at least since the late 90s when I started watching. Someone may have imported it themselves from California.

Here's a picture of it by the way :) in case anyone see's it around

http://www.rarefruit-sa.org.au/Espalier/Fruit/Rainbow.jpg

Time: 22nd July 2010 10:14am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Jason, Birdwood told me a couple of days ago they only do Dade, Reinecke and Vernon. They had no vernons in stock. And dade by all accounts doesn't taste that great in cold climates. And they had zero cherimoya at the moment.

I wonder if Chris from perrys fruit and nut would contact the SA rarefuit society and get some wood off them if someone placed an order with them for a Rainbow White Sapote... I wonder..

Time: 22nd July 2010 10:27am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Jason - I have to ask - but what are u planning on doing with all these sapotes you have? Are u researching them?

Time: 22nd July 2010 6:41pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Amanda, I think its obvious: Secret government Military research program on white sapotes to create super weapons.

It's the only logical explanation!

:P

That Rainbow white sapote looks pretty sweet jason. I would love to see what all the whoo-haa is about in regards to that variety and chris. How much better could they really be than the others?

Time: 23rd July 2010 5:50pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J, if a normal Sapote is an Apple, Chris is a Mango. That's about the difference.

Amanda, I like growing Sapotes :) they are easy to grow and make lots of food, one day I'll find a actual use for the fruit but until then rubbing the smashed fruit through the grass to collect the seeds is quite soothing to the mind also :0

When I decide what are the very best varieties I'm going to do some deliberate cross's between them also. Chris is a great fruit but a sickly kind of tree so that needs to cross with another almost great fruit that's a strong grower in cool climates for starters.

I wont be doing any government research :p but I might try leaving some seeds on the ground to see what happens to the rats one day

Time: 23rd July 2010 6:22pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 23rd July 2010 6:26pm

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Ha ha - I was thinking about the seed too (maybe sedate the enemy!?) Good luck with your mission Jason - with all that knowledge I am sure I will see a Casimiroa in the nursery one day called "Jason" :-)
You could always ask someone like Maggie Beer what she could whip up with the fruit...she's got some of the best taste buds around.

Time: 23rd July 2010 6:36pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I think most of the plant breeders name plants after the inspiring girls that got away during life, not themselves :). But perhaps it's best to name the first one after your wife so you don't get stabbed :p

Time: 23rd July 2010 7:32pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Jason, so you have the mcdill variety or seen or tasted the fruit of that variety?

And you mentioned the americans don't think the variety we call "lemon gold" is lemon gold. Then what variety do we have?

Time: 23rd July 2010 8:32pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Sorry to butt in J - but Jason - have a look at Phil's (@Tyalgum) "Chris" in his edibles page - it's lovely looking.

Phil - I want to transplant my two L'golds - what was the root system like on yours when u dug it up?
I have 35L tree bags and the bigger tree is 3 or 4 yrs old and 1.5 tall?
I am so pleased to see u have been successful moving yours.

What's your drainage like there Phil?
Is there much distance between you and J? I know I am no expert here but I don't think the colour of J's are 'right' somehow..?

(edit: J - in the first pics u posted the younger leave seem to be getting paler - for what it's worth I think it's hungry for some nitrogen? - and seasol is very low in this...your other ones are putting out new growth which would indicate is actually not too cold...)

Hey Jason - hope your love has a better name than "Denzler"..??? :)

Time: 23rd July 2010 10:15pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 23rd July 2010 10:32pm

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Amanda, about two weeks ago I put a handful of Dynamic lifter on each white sapote I have, plus I bought some Yates Thrive water Soluble fertilizer which has 20% nitrogen, which I have applied once with a liberal mix of seasol. I'm not sure if this application of fertilizer is doing much good during winter - but here's hoping it is!

Since this a thread about my plants looking rather crappy, just the other day I noticed my Mammoth Feijoa was shedding/dropping leaves rapidly. I've got 5 other feijoa trees of different varieties and none of them have shed a single leaf so far. Is this something Feijoas do during winter (because my others don't) and again should I be worried? I put them in the ground during early autumn this year and I've given them a handful of dynamic lifter and seasol since. Hope that's not overkill. Any thoughts?

Edit: The mammoth and all other feijoa's are from daleys. Could it be the plant getting used to the climate change? If so, why aren't the other varieties dropping leaves?

Time: 24th July 2010 12:25am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 24th July 2010 12:30am

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Phil the mad transplanter seems to have good success moving these!:), who dares me to move my 6 foot lemon gold sapote that's never going to do well where it is?

Amanda, it's probably best to not be reminded of these things too often but I do have some good exotics names there if I feel up for it :p. I already unofficially (so far) named an Apple "Grandpa Smith" lol, only because it's a cross between granny smith and golden delicious but I think it's a better apple than either of those

Time: 24th July 2010 5:29am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Amanda, my Lemon Gold started flowering the week after I moved it. Perhaps they need a little stress to encourage a bit of action. Most of the pics on my site are just from Google, the fruit trees are all pretty young so it's just to give readers an idea of what to expect down the line.

Time: 24th July 2010 9:55am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author PhilTyalgum2
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 3974
Posts: 6
View All PhilTyalgum2's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Sorry to ask again, guys - but any advice on whats happening with my Mammoth Feijoa described in my last post above?

Time: 24th July 2010 11:04am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
I noticed that my "Duffy" lost all it's leaves last week, although still green and glossy when they fell. I have Mammoth, Large Oval plus a few cuttings of unnamed seedlings and none of them are doing the same. I wonder if anyone has an answer.

Time: 24th July 2010 11:16am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author PhilTyalgum2
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 3974
Posts: 6
View All PhilTyalgum2's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Phil, thats strange. I have a Duffy too and thats one of the feijoa's that hasn't lost a leaf. It's my mammoth thats dropping them like crazy.

Time: 24th July 2010 11:39am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi J/Phil/Jason...well that blew that theory!
I'd still be interested in your general garden soil pH too though (and particularly that black hills soil...)
I guess time will tell when the weather warms up - if they green up.

Strange about the feijoas - they grow like weeds in NZ and it's colder there - u would think it would happen to all of your trees too.

Mine defoliate suddenly only when they are dry (but they survive). I am still having to water my plants over this side :-( How about u guys?

I was worried about moving my LG's as Susanna Lyle says in her book that they have a large taproot - but they also have spreading surface roots.
Can tap roots re-establish?

(She also says they need a cool period to flower - and this is the coldest winter we have had in 5 yrs and I now have action from mine...?)


Time: 24th July 2010 12:31pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
We've had an extremely wet winter here near melbourne, amanda. So I think watering some more would be over kill.

My trees including the mammoth were doing well up and growing until two weeks ago when the mammoth started dropping leaves. Like I said all I have done is given each tree a handful of dynamic lifter and some seasol. I spray white oil and Pyrethrum every three weeks or so to keep the bugs away. and thats about it. Curious.

Time: 24th July 2010 1:55pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Dunno then J...this is one of mine in the orchard that receives constant sub surface watering thru recycling unit - it's never dropped leaves - unlike my others that are out of this zone.

They do have shallow roots - have u stuck your finger in the soil? (I know that sounds obvious...sorry)

I see a recent post about someone using white oil too - and leaf drop (White oil pretty full on - have u tried Eco-oil? it's a great product and less likely to cause problems) What bugs do you have? Feijoa leaves are usually pretty unpalatable and tough to most things...
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 24th July 2010 2:24pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Vernon has been fruiting on older,lower branches already,a much appreciated winter crop. As far as McDill goes it's OK but no one will write poetry about it. Golden Nugget is much under appreciated as it has intense flavour and a rich buttery taste. The tree is very upright with little branching and may not be the same as the USA version .

Time: 24th July 2010 3:13pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Kert, I've never heard of Golden nugget. Where can I get that variety from?

Amanda, I had no Idea white oil was a full on product that actually instigated leaf drop. I don't generally put much white oil on the feijoas, just my citrus trees. Will switch to eco-oil either way.

Time: 24th July 2010 5:51pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
I bought it at Birdwood Nursery when it was selling a much more diverse range; they now concentrate on commercial varieties.

Time: 24th July 2010 6:52pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
My error ;checked records and it is actually "Golden Globe". The 1992 catalogue of Birdwood lists about 10 different White sapotes ;shame they have now become unavailable but the parent trees must be still around.

Time: 25th July 2010 7:42am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Kert can you give a rundown on what was available in the casimiroa line through Birdwood in '92? There are a couple of nurseries up this way who are still wholesale customers, I'd like to track down a couple of elusive cultivars. Thanks, Phil.

Time: 25th July 2010 8:36am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Is macs golden and Golden Globe the same variety?

Time: 25th July 2010 7:21pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
No they are not the same atleast they aren't supposed to be, I have lots of Macs Golden wood if anyone want's to collect that one once it's a bit warmer. I have both Golden Globe and Lemon Gold, those are the two that are supposed to be confused in Australia, but both of my trees are planted where it's too dry for them to do anything so I'm going to have to move them if I'm ever going to find out what is what.

How about we all make a list of what varieties we all have still alive and can potentially make/swap wood at some stage?.

I have in all these in some various stages between super health and near death :P (all are savable if I choose too though) although some I don't even water let alone feed since they haven't wanted to perform for me, they are all plants that come from various places that were having a dodgy year at the time and so are on the "I might re-graft them to a decent rootstock at some stage list".

Anyway varieties that I have alive are.

Pike (healthy), Vernon(healthy x 2), Mac's Golden(healthy graft on a seedling), Reinecke Commercial(healthy), Ortega(healthy), Vista(healthy), Chris(OK), Hawaii Supreme (bit sick/small), Golden globe(bit sick/small), Lemon Gold(OK), Dade(abandoned), Smathers(OK/small x 2)is a pure Casimiroa tetrameria wolly leaf).

I know Jantina has at least one variety I don't and that's Blumenthal.

Again the only one I really want now that I don't have is Rainbow :)

Amanda the soil here is red loam with iron gravel and a decent amount of clay in it pretty much no organic matter, Ph about 5.5. Glowinski's sapotes do well also in Melbourne in a typical near the coast sand with black dirt on top

Time: 25th July 2010 9:50pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 25th July 2010 9:57pm

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks for that Jason. Perrys have a few Macs golden but when I asked chris what he thought of the fruit, he didn't make it sound like it was very good.

Ok so far I've got: 3 pikes, 1 Vista, 2 Ortego, 1 Wilson, 1 Reinecke Commericial and 2 Vernons. After reading the responses from everyone is this thread , I'm interested in getting Rainbow, Chris, Golden Globe and a lemon gold. I'm assuming all of these should be able to grow and fruit successfully in Vic.

Time: 25th July 2010 10:11pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 25th July 2010 10:12pm

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I've only had a couple of fruit from Macs Golden and I didn't think it was so crash hot myself. I think any variety will grow in Victoria but it seems they may taste different depending on where they are grown and what kind of soil etc.

Vernon seems to make an almost infinite amount of flowers and not much fruit for me, oddly. But it's an excellent pollinator since it's pretty much always flowering. Pike is reliable IF you have a pollinator otherwise it simply wont make anything other than marble sized fruit. With a pollinator is makes huge fruit and heaps of them, not the best tasting sapote but at least average so that's a keeper considering you know you are going to get a lot of fruit. I'll recap on my thoughts of the ones you have that I have.

Vista similar to pike, bit prettier tree, might taste slightly better also but doesn't seem to fruit as heavily for me.

Ortega has very small fruit but again a good pollinator, it doesn't flower all the time like Vernon though, both these two's leaves are usually more yellow in colour than the other trees but can be fixed with more nitrogen.

Reinecke Commercial is an amazing looking tree, VERY dark green with bright red new growth but I had to wait sooooo many years for it to fruit. Still I believe it will be one of the best sapote's I have, only a few more months now and I'll find out :). It's supposed to be perhaps the most yellow (almost orange skin).

As for Lemon gold and Golden Globe at least one of them or perhaps both are an excellent fruit :) (whatever one is the real Californian Lemon Gold)


Time: 25th July 2010 10:26pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(1) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
People who Like this Answer: Luke :)
Original Post was last edited: 25th July 2010 10:27pm

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Phil@T here is alist of Birdwood's 1992 catalogue for white sapote....Reinecke,Golden Globe,Lemon Gold,McDill,Smathers,Candy,Macs Golden,Dade,,Chris,,Wilson,Yellow,Vernon,Denzler,Ortago
For interest sakes here is their cherimoyas from 1992.....Fino,Spain,Balwin,White,Deliciosa,Bays,Chaffey,Mossman,Anderson,AndrewsLoma,Equador,El Bumpo,Libby,Campa,Reretai,Bronceada,Contra,Burton's favourite, Burton's,plus others on request(sic) Quite a treasure trove.

Time: 26th July 2010 8:30am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
It ought not be hard to differentiate Lemon Gold from Golden Globe,Jason. Lemon Gold is a semperflores variety and is in flower now ;Golden Globe is without flowers at present. My repertoire is Golden Globe ,Lemon Gold still small, Pike , McDill and Vernon, If someone does manage to find a source of well regarded sapotes I would be v. interested.

Time: 26th July 2010 8:37am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi kert - what is a semperflores? Is it to do with the way it flowers? thanks.

Time: 26th July 2010 9:57am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Hi Jason, I also have a Denzler (and a labelled Lemon Gold)but as you saw they are still babies planted last summer. Hopefully this year will see a blast of growth.

Time: 26th July 2010 10:09am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
It's ok I found it: semperflorens meaning

Time: 26th July 2010 11:37am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Jason, Blumenthal is another name for Hawaiian Supreme. a marketing type must have renamed it ;its proper name ought to be Hawaiian Just OK.

Time: 26th July 2010 2:58pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi J - i think my comment about white oil got deleted..anyway - my comment was about the petroleum based white oil being very harsh...

Hope your casimiroas go well for u! I look forward to trying a lemon gold this season...(fingers crossed) and will be sure to post feedback on my edibles (and also if it has the sub-acid taste like it should) :)



Time: 26th July 2010 6:03pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Thanks for the list Kert, no doubt I'll come across the odd relic in some forgotten nursery, seems the way to go with the hard to find varieties.

Time: 26th July 2010 6:09pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Cool amanda, I'll stop applying it and see what happens.





Daleys have got Golden Globes and Lemon Gold available. If they had some Chris's I'd place an order straight away for all three of them. Does anyone have a decent size flowering lemon Gold or Golden globe in victoria thats produced fruit? If so did it taste good?

And whats the deal with Sunlight and white sapotes? Can they flower and fruit in part shade? Because I've got space at the back of the property that could be used if that is so.

Time: 26th July 2010 7:18pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J, I'd try them in part shade given that they seem to have no problem flowering all winter when there is not much light at the best of times around here.

There's got to be a fruiting lemon gold in Victoria somewhere, but I don't know where :). I really better move my tree soon to see what it can do.

Kert, I didn't know Hawaii was the same plant as blumenthal, it seems between all of us in this thread we have most of the varieties that were brought into the country still going, so that's something good :)






Time: 26th July 2010 9:24pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
In the current Daley's plant list there is a white sapote that is described merely as "grafted" What can that be? Presumebly the others are marcotted .

Time: 28th July 2010 8:51am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
In the current Daley's plant list there is a white sapote that is described merely as "grafted" What can that be? Presumebly the others are marcotted .

Time: 28th July 2010 8:51am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Kert, I have noticed this as well. I smell a conspiracy!! :)
Seriously, it would be cool if Someone from daleys could answer your question. I'm interested in finding out what "grafted" in this case means.

Jason, you mentioned you need to move your lemon gold tree. Is it in a bad spot (lack of sun etc etc)?


Time: 28th July 2010 9:52am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Jason and Phil, have put in my request for Rainbow grafting material with the Rarefruit Society. Wish me luck!

Time: 28th July 2010 11:32am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Jantina, Best of luck!

Time: 28th July 2010 1:47pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
If I get some I'm sure that a piece will gradually wend it's way to you J.

Time: 28th July 2010 3:22pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
K - I bet you'll be even more popular than ever...

Time: 28th July 2010 5:37pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks Jantina. I would love to have a rare white sapote growing in my backyard. However I'll probably have to get someone to graft that piece for me as I (as of yet) don't know how to graft.

Jantina, you've mentioned you have Lucuma seeds. If that is correct, I would love to buy some off you. Would that be possible? I've read that it grows quite well here in the Melbourne, and its difficult to get in nurseries.

Time: 28th July 2010 6:27pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Haha, Jason doesn't know it yet but I'll probably make him graft mine!
As for lucuma seed, everything I have is already in pots or planted out. There are still a few that haven't come up yet,but

when I checked they had put down a taproot but no topgrowth yet. So depending on what happens in spring you may get a plant from me. Longlive plant diversity!

Time: 28th July 2010 7:42pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks heaps, Jantina. How frost tolerant are they? Also, if you do end up getting a lucuma plant for me please feel free to email me at jmubaraki@hotmail.com. Thanks again for the kindness.

And I might have to ask Jason to graft me a rainbow white sapote as well!

Time: 28th July 2010 8:24pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Well J ,I just got an email saying I could have some Rainbow cuttings! How exciting is that?
Re lucuma, apparently they can take it down to -5c. Certainly mine have taken some frost and are still going well. There is a bloke called Sean who has one in Gippsland (see lucuma thread) and he says his tolerates some snow and that good drainage is the key.

Time: 28th July 2010 11:39pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hey Jantina, that's great news about the rainbow cuttings!! Congratulations!! When do you get to take them? Now if Jason could volunteer his grafting services.. hint hint :)

Lucuma sounds very promising. I've got good drainage here and not too many frosts. Look forward to hearing from you when you have a spare seedling.

Time: 28th July 2010 11:46pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Next meeting, in Sept sometime. Jason is very keen to get a Rainbow so I don't think he will mind grafting and my husband can graft too.
I grew up in Melb. and often stayed with my Oma (Dutch for Grandma) whose house overlooked the Puffing Billy line. My first few months in Oz were spent at Belgrave.

Time: 29th July 2010 12:06am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Cool. As you probably realised I'm in belgrave (upwey to be more precise) too. Love the area. Don't love the possums. My partner is of dutch heritage and she refers to her grandma as Oma too.

Jantina, feel free to drop me an email when you are in the area. I'd be happy to show you around my (rapidly expanding) garden.

An update on my white sapotes (which was the reason I started this thread): they seem to have stabilised. Not getting any worse, which is good. Very good!

Time: 29th July 2010 9:52am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
May i ask where the Rainbow donor is? I may be able to give him something he badly needs (like a kidney)
Hope our expectations on this cultivar are borne out. As you know there are otherwise normal people who think Babaco is delicious.

Time: 29th July 2010 10:22am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Haha kert good one. The donor lives in Adelaide and I have already asked him to let me know if there is anything he is particularly after, so if he does and I don't personally have it I will put out the call, thanks.

Time: 29th July 2010 11:08am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

Sean says...
Hi guys, I have a Lemon Gold that has been in the ground for about 6 years now, very slow to start with but in the last couple of years it has really taken off and is about 12 feet tall now.Started flowering for the first time about two months ago now and just wont stop. It has thousands of flowers all over it, only a couple look to have set but it is still flowering well and I think it is only a matter of time until I get fruit.

Time: 29th July 2010 7:29pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Gippsland
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thats good to hear, Sean! 6 years is a long time but sounds like it will be worth it. Where did you get the tree from originally?

Time: 29th July 2010 8:53pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Sean says...
It was a Daleys tree, they were really good, they sent me a tree down that the delivery guys damaged and tipped out of the pot. In rang Daleys and they sent me another tree without any hesitation, great service. I tried my hardest to get the first tree to come back but it never recovered.

Time: 29th July 2010 9:23pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Gippsland
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Lemon Gold is a good pollinator if you ever decide to get another variety to match up with it. My Ortego is also flowering profusely but not setting any fruit, am using it to hand pollinate Pike, Dade and Vista as I'm not sure what distance the pollen will be transported naturally - ants seem to be the only insects attracted to the flowers.

Time: 29th July 2010 9:34pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Kert, babaco is pretty good! lol. A lot seems to depends on the person doing the tasting and the climate and dirt but it tastes pretty good here.

I'm not so sure I'd choose a tropical papaya over it, those tend to taste a bit spewy at times :).

I prefer the more temperate zing of Babcao I think.

Sean I don't know what happened with sapotes this year in Victoria but most of mine have been covered in flowers ever since Autumn and just wont quit.

Phil bees and flys both go for sapote flowers here for me, also ants and various things at night. But the biggest fan of sapote flowers seem to be slugs, because they are happy to make the huge clumb up the trees to get to the flowers every night.

J, my lemon gold tree is in a really dry spot, I saw a couple of flowers on it the other day, but it's really got to move (it's about 6 foot). I also noticed my little sick golden globe has died at the graft. It must have had some incompatibility the whole time, so I'll have to replace that one at some stage, no hurry though.

Jantina, that is a legendary effort :!, sapotes are easy to graft. If you can spare a scion for me I can graft it on to a just right size vigorous Pike seedling I have (about 4 foot or so and super healthy) and try and multiply the wood up so everyone can get it going



Time: 29th July 2010 9:50pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(1) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
People who Like this Answer: Rob19

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
hey jason, I ended up getting some bags of pivot fertilizer this weekend. I got some nitrophoska blue (Nitrogen 10%)for all the other trees (recommended for avocados, lemons etc on the pivot website) and Pivot 400 (nitrogen 20%) for the white sapotes.

I've just put the Two vernons I picked up recently into the ground and The pikes in the pots will go into the ground next.

Thanks again to everyone for their input in this thread. Very very helpful.

Time: 16th August 2010 3:52pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J just alternate the two on the sapotes, I'm putting the lower nitrogen stuff I have on then once it's all gone from the ground (it takes a couple/few months) I put on the stronger stuff, once that is all gone, back to the lower stuff etc etc :). You wont need to put bulk amounts on like I do because my trees are pretty big but just put enough on that the new leaves grow darker green and bigger. You probably want to aim for around 15cm long leaves on all the sapotes for a start

Time: 17th August 2010 4:54am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi Phil - only ants attracted to the flowers on mine as well...interesting.

Time: 17th August 2010 9:43am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I guess when sapotes are flowering here it's about the only food around for bees so they can't afford to be fussy

Time: 17th August 2010 6:02pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
I've been hand pollinating just in case - Ortego produces so many flowers that I can afford to pinch a few to distribute around to the other trees, although it's quite a fiddly job.

Time: 18th August 2010 11:18am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
hey Phil - I wonder how commercial orchardists deal with this? Maybe the fruit in the shops is all lemon gold..?
I have no shortage of bees. Lucky the ants are on the job!

Time: 18th August 2010 2:18pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Is there a commercial sapote orchid anywhere in the world? the only place you can find them even in Mexico is up some dark alley in the most unknown of street markets, even then you have to especially ask them to bring you the fruit the next week

Time: 18th August 2010 3:44pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Haven't been to Mexico Jason - but there is an orchard over here in Gin Gin - I can often buy the fruit in my F&V store...

Time: 18th August 2010 4:47pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
They grow em in Californy and sell at the farmers markets there along with cherimoya. That's about the extent of it.

I was reading an interesting article about white sapote and its lack of popularity in this day and age. Number 1 problem that prevented it from catching on with the farmers is the transportation and bruising of fruit. 2nd reason why it isn't as popular as it should be is because it never caught on in Asia. Cherimoya, Sapodilla and Guava (amongst others)became common in asia over the last 90 years. White sapote (due to the transportation problems) was never properly introduced to the Asian public and therefore never caught on like the other south american fruits that were introduced.

The reason its proved difficult to reintroduce white sapote as a viable crop in western markets, unlike say cherimoya, sapodilla and guava is that there's no Ethnic attachment to it from the American/Australian- Asians/Indians.

Time: 18th August 2010 5:49pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Belgrave, VIC
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Phil@Tyalgum says...
I bought some semi ripe fruit from Tropical Fruit World here and left them for a day or two before I ate them. They had deteriorated in that short space of time and were not really edible, had that "off" taste of over ripe fruit. Lucky I salvaged the seeds but they do spoil rapidly worse luck.

Time: 18th August 2010 7:58pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author TyalgumPhil
Murwillumbah
#UserID: 960
Posts: 1383
View All TyalgumPhil's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
One's I get superb! but $5 EACH... (I eat them that day or next)

Time: 18th August 2010 9:34pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
$5 each :0 if you payed me that for all the fruit that went rotten on the ground this year I'd be rich :), even if you paid me 50 cents!. Well maybe not because it's easy to sell the seeds for a dollar if you really feel like it :) and sometimes there's 3+ of them in a fruit

Time: 19th August 2010 1:51am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Who's paying a dollar a seed?

Time: 19th August 2010 10:43am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
They go for that on ebay no problem

Time: 19th August 2010 2:16pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

Russell says...
Hello there. Hope you don't mind my putting in a question here.
I'm wondering when I should be expecting my white sapote to flower? It's been in the ground three years at this location after being transplanted as a one-year-old from a previous garden. I think it's a lemon gold. It's a beautifully healthy tree that I've had to prune back twice because of its prolific growth. I've cut right back on fertilizer but it's unstoppable. It's growing in sand a few hundred metres from the beach in a sub-tropical zone. I've given it organic matter and it's well-mulched.

Time: 20th August 2010 11:40am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Russell
Ocean Shores
#UserID: 4121
Posts: 5
View All Russell's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Why do you prune? Pruning sets back the time of first flowering. My Lemon Gold flowered in the pot .

Time: 20th August 2010 1:00pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Russell says...
Quite simple, really. It was huge - nearly 5 metres tall and its spread was over the roof of the house and well over the neighbour's fence. I live in a suburban block and don't have the luxury of wide open spaces. It's still 3 metres tall and so I haven't savaged it. I'm looking for someone to give me constructive input, thanks

Time: 20th August 2010 2:37pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Russell
Ocean Shores
#UserID: 4121
Posts: 5
View All Russell's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Russell - I am not sure (but Phil might know) - but I have two lemon golds that have been flowering madly for a cupla months now - strangely one is 3yrs (and never flowered before) and the other only a year in and flowering too (and they are flowering from the trunk and the branches) So as to the age - it seems a bit random...
I am wondering if it's because we have had a very cold, dry winter here - by our standards. Where is Ocean Shores?

Maybe it's a set of conditions rather than the age - what do u think Phil?

Anyway - mine growing in sandy soil also (and we 1km from beach) and they are powering along too and don't seem to need much feeding either. So we have some similar growing conditions. But my 3yr old only 2m tall!

PS - this is all Susanna Lyle states in her book: "May not fruit as well in the tropics if trees do not receive a brief cool season, which induces flowering and fruiting"...

Time: 20th August 2010 10:56pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 20th August 2010 11:10pm

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Russell says...
Thanks Amanda. Ocean Shores is in far northern NSW. Warm winters could have something to do with it. I'm not overly concerned. I'll be patient and enjoy the beautiful tree

Time: 21st August 2010 2:46pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Russell
Ocean Shores
#UserID: 4121
Posts: 5
View All Russell's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I had a look at Ocean Shores and it looks like it's right in the beach at Byron bay and it had me wondering how come I walked all day along that beach and never arrived there :0. Anyway I certainly saw other unexpected sights :p.

I'm not even sure why sapotes decide to flower but I know at least in Southern Australia earlier this year was the best sapote flowering any of us have seen and it happened everywhere all at once. Maybe we had a cold snap late in Summer, I'm not sure. That reminds me, I've often seen a suspicious sapote looking fruiting tree in the background in the Hobart botanic gardens on the ABC. Finally the other day I saw it close up on the show and it's definitely a quite large white sapote


Time: 23rd August 2010 6:06am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Just saw this after a search up too, posted by a Tasmanian

"white sapotes are very hardy - there is a massive one growing here in our Botanical Gardens, it fruits really thickly."

Time: 23rd August 2010 6:11am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

BJ says...
I have a huge fruit on my White Spaote now and I was wondering when I should pick it? It will be my first (Well, actually, One ripened and fell off while I was on holiday a few weeks ango and shrivelled up on the ground) and I wanted to know when is the best time to pick it...

Time: 26th August 2010 2:59pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
#UserID: 3270
Posts: 1552
View All Theposterformerlyknownas's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Usually when they start droping the whole tree is ripe (if it all flowered at once), You can wait until they start to slightly give on the tree but it's risky if you only have the one fruit because it might separate from the stem then you are in all sorts of trouble because you really need to leave the stem attached of it wont soften well.

But if the fruit is huge then chances are it's ripe, how huge are we talking? baseball? large orange?

This picture is fruit from my Pike tree 5 years ago maybe? this is about as big as Pike get and most varieties are smaller than that
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 26th August 2010 4:08pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

BJ says...
Mine is a Vernon, so it has flowers, small fruit, larger fruit and full sized fruit on it right now. The fruit it a bit larger than a large granny Smith apple (Not as big as those pikes!). The tree is still small (1.3m) and the size and weight of the fruit(its very heavy and still very hard/dense) is such that the tree is drooping quite badly. Should I wait for it to drop, or will it begin to soften slightly, or is there any other indicator that it might be ready?

Time: 27th August 2010 11:32am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
#UserID: 3270
Posts: 1552
View All Theposterformerlyknownas's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
BJ, I'd say a large granny smith sized Vernon is done :). It will soften sliiightly before it drops from the tree but you will risk losing it to ground or birds or whatever grubs you have up there :). I think it will ripen off the tree if it's that size now without any problem. Clip the stem and keep it somewhere thats at air temp like in a box or something. They don't ripen in the fridge or in a heated room (shrivel up in both cases usually). Don't wait until it's super soft to eat it either, just until... well it takes some practice but they taste better before they turn mushy but you can't eat them when they are firm either

Time: 27th August 2010 2:43pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Also remember the size of the fruit depends on how well the pollination went. Fruit with 3 or 4 full seeds are much large than those with 1 but they can both be ripe at the same time. You can mostly tell from the shape of the fruit how many seed are in it but Vernon seems to be pretty much round regardless so it's a bit tricky when it constantly flowers like it does

Time: 27th August 2010 2:47pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason10
Portland, Vic
#UserID: 3853
Posts: 218
View All Jason10's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Has any on tried to order some of the new zealand varieties of white sapote from any of the nurseries in new zealand?

Exactly what is the quarantine law and procedure like with getting plants from New zealand to Australia. Is it difficult, costly or lengthy? Has any one had any experience with this?

Time: 29th August 2010 10:58am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

j says...
Just an update, all my trees survived their first Vic winter. They are all sprouting new leaves, which is great. I'm hoping I will see some flowers on some of them this season, considering the 2 of my pikes have already fruited. Fingers crossed.

Btw the I had the chance to see Jujube4sales Ortega and Vernon tree, and the ortega was massive with every branch full of little forming fruit. Very impressed and I can't wait for my own to be like that.

Time: 21st October 2010 8:25am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(1) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
People who Like this Answer: vlct

About the Author J
 
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
I think one of my vernon white sapotes is flowering. Do these pics look like flowers?


Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3
Picture: 4

Time: 28th October 2010 8:29pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
belgrave
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Absolutely it's flowers :)

Time: 29th October 2010 12:33am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks, Jason. That's great news! I was worried the dandenong ranges might have been a bit too cold for my white sapotes to fruit, which would have made my investment in 10 trees quite a dud, but see some flowers on atleast 1 of them makes me happy. Now they just have to form fruit and the other 9 trees need to do the same and I'll be laughing!

Time: 29th October 2010 11:45am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
belgrave
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
If you stood on the FLOOR of the Valley de Mexico where you can find Sapotes growing and looked down at a mountain the size of the Dandenongs it would look about like an ant hill so I wouldn't stress too much about them :). There's nothing tropical about that place. Along with the Mexican race of Avocados those things are high altitude cool climate specials.

I was spreading fertiliser around tonight. I used the "pasture booster" on all the evergreen trees, which is something like 20-10-10 (bit more than that on each). For anything that was a bit yellow I mixed in some extra nitrogen to make it something like 30-10-10 which is getting pretty serious so I didn't water it in, I'll let in rain in nice and easy. We will see what happens, I'm aiming for around 2-3 feet of growth all around on everything this year but I'll need another few bags of pasture booster before the Summer is done

Time: 29th October 2010 9:46pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 29th October 2010 9:57pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
So much for letting the rain ease the fertiliser in :P. I thought it would rain for an hour not 24 hours

Time: 30th October 2010 12:12pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

j says...
Yeah, I hear ya. I mixed some potassium sulphate into the ground for some of my flowering trees hoping the same but its really pissed down.

Btw I got some of that pasture boosta stuff and my white sapotes and guava's hated it. Leave burn galore here. I have a feeling that stuff will be great for my sapotes in a few years but for younger plants its a little too strong. My citrus seemed to like it though.

Picked up a babaco today. Had some fruit given to me by a very generous gardener and I really enjoyed them. So a tree for me it is.

Time: 30th October 2010 8:46pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
 
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
How much did you put on them? little tree only needs a little bit, maybe 100-200 grams or something spread over 4 feet diameter?. I'm putting over the course of a year I guess 2 kilos around a 10 year old sapote but a 10 year old sapote could have a trunk a foot thick if you get onto a good one. I like to sprinkle it around so it looks like the fertiliser they stick on top of commercially grown potted plants. Kind of a just right looking amount. I put the same amount on both Sapotes and Citrus but I guess it depends how deficient the soil is to begin with. I actually used a whole bag last night and this morning, now I just have a bag of 46%? nitrogen left so I've been going verrry easy with that around the trees that missed out on the other stuff, that stuff I'd only be putting a couple spoon fulls on smaller plants, maybe 200 grams on decent size trees just to see what happens before I get too crazy. I wait a month after putting the fertiliser and watch what the leaves do, I haven't burnt anything yet but the leaves come out overly large and a bit wobbly looking if I put too much, if the leaves still look fine, then I put more.

I've never ever been able to make Cherimoya's grow like they should so I'm experimenting on my "White" tree this year since I don't like the fruit on that variety. It's got HEAPS of pasture booster + extra nitrogen right now, maybe not enough to kill it if things go wrong but should be enough to make it grow properly if that's what it needed

Time: 30th October 2010 9:18pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

j says...
Jason, I'm pretty sure it was below a 100 grams per tree for the white sapotes. My strawberry/yellow guava's didn't like it at all. Infact it almost knocked one of em for a six, lost all its top growth to burn. Shame but I think it will come back strong soon.

I've got two bags of the stuff, so I'm going to use em thats for sure, but I might wait for another year and stick to organic stuff while the trees settle into the ground.

Please let me know how the cherimoya fertilizer experiment goes. Since I've got one (southern knight) and plan on getting about 5 more of them, that would be really good info. Incidently, have all your cherimoya tree's dropped their leaves yet and started sprouting new ones, jason?



Time: 31st October 2010 4:56pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
 
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Yep, most of my Cherimoyas are leafless and just pushing new buds now, a couple still have some maybe 50% leaves but mostly they are almost leafless. Pity about the burn on the new growth but they will probably come back booming, I bet the sapotes will at least. With my Cheirmoyas I've only been able to get an average of a foot growth on them per year and Glowinskis tree in Melbourne looked SO much stronger than mine and growing several feet per year when I saw it so I'm doing something not as well as he has with his. They've never had anywhere near as large leaves as they should either, the leaves should be like the size of a medium sized food plate so fertiliser is my first step, I've tried adding lime in the past but it didn't prove much.

I've never put fertiliser on my strawberry/yellow Guava, I was actually thinking the other day that I should since it's about 8 feet tall but totally yellow and not happy looking, I'll have to remember to go easy on it

Time: 31st October 2010 10:56pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (1) | Report
People who Like this Question Luke :)

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Wayne says...
My Cherimoya was like that a month or so back Jason but now it even has fruit.
I was reading up on them and the word was plenty of Potassium "Cherimoya usually requires extra potassium for good production,up to 10 pounds per year on mature trees."

Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 1st November 2010 7:44am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Wayne
Mackay QLD
#UserID: 338
Posts: 908
View All Wayne's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Sounds like a plan Wayne I'll try anything :). They don't normally flower here until early December. I actually just pulled the last fruit off one a couple days ago. The tree I'm experimenting on is a "White" which is not a very good fruit as far as Cherimoyas go it's 15 feet tall but 10 years old so I consider that a bit of a failure since I know they can grow much better than that in similar cool climates

Time: 1st November 2010 11:00am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
Ten pounds per year?? Sounds excessive . Do you mean 10 pounds a year? Of what .? Potassium sulphate?

Time: 1st November 2010 12:05pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

j says...
So it seems one of my ortega's has a small bunch of flowers at the centre. Surprised to see anything on it considering its only 3 feet tall.

Time: 1st November 2010 8:15pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
 
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
I was surprised to see my "Chris" arrived from Daley's last week in flower. Only two flowers, but, hey, a flower is a flower.

Time: 1st November 2010 9:08pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

j says...
Well that's good to hear, John. The chris I got from daleys a month or so ago is sort of just sitting in the ground. Not getting any worse but not doing much either. I think it needs to get warmer.

Time: 1st November 2010 9:11pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
 
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
Yes all my other varieties I planted earlier this year are doing the same. A whole lot of nothin. The Reineke special has one mature leaf left. If that falls, It's just a bare upright stick.
We are having a very long drawn out winter recovery here, just north of Sydney, below Newcastle. I must say though, the 3 year old seedlings are doing well. They've probably put on 6 inches of growth already. I fed them up well late winter with a heavy application of organic as well as chemical based ferts, with horse manure as mulch. We are receiving the best rains that I can ever remember since being here.

Time: 1st November 2010 10:57pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

j says...
Actually only my chris and one of my pikes (both from daleys) is kinda doing nothing. Just sitting there in the ground, but the rest of my trees are popping out leaves like crazy, especially my reinecke commercial. I picked that tree up about 8 months ago for 25$ and it seemed like nursery reject stock. And now its doing good.

Yeah we are getting plenty of rains in Vic as well. It's a good thing and I'm not complaining.

Time: 2nd November 2010 9:34am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
 
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Pike is always the last to grow for me, it usually wont move till the end of November or even December after it flowers then it will push constant growth until May 15th ish when it just runs out of heat. But my Chris tree is pushing leaves now, it also has some flowers. Some years it doesn't but I've got pretty heavy handed on that one this year since it's always been yellow looking. I've got the Autumn crop on Reinecke half grown, that should be ripe sometime over summer so that's a bit exciting.

Apart from that pretty much every sapote tree I have is flowering right now, Vernon flowers pretty much 365 days a year but most of them flower the heaviest during Spring and Autumn (Pike only flowers in Spring)

Time: 2nd November 2010 12:28pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 2nd November 2010 12:29pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Update:
The daleys Chris seems to be growing now and so does the daleys pike, which is good news. The other pikes are growing well and my reinecke commerical has gone sort of mental, sprouting new growth like crazy.
I'm also the proud owner of 2 golden globes, 1 hawain supreme and 1 lemon gold. Got a couple more Wilsons as well for right at the back of the property where it's the coldest. Now all I need is a Suebelle and a Rainbow and my white sapote collection will be complete. Hopefully in a few years time I'm gonna have white saotes coming out of my ears and I won't know what to do with them. White sapote Jam maybe?

Time: 24th December 2010 10:30am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
That's sounding pretty good J, the Rainbow is still coming, never thought to ask about Suebelle but maybe I can get some grafting material from the same source. Jason told me we can graft just about anytime.

Time: 24th December 2010 5:19pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hey jantina
A suebelle would be great. I'm pretty sure some one in the rare fruit SA branch would have one. Suebelle is meant to be an everbearer and its fruit are yellow. Yellow white sapote fruit all year round sounds good to me.
Hows the ruby red pepino going? Your American paw paw seedling is doing well. Thanks again for that!

Time: 24th December 2010 9:34pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Wouldn't say it was powering away but it has 16 leaves on it now and looks very healthy. Probably time to take it out of the glasshouse, may be a bit too hot for it in there. My Asimina triloba's have put on more growth this year than in the last 3 years put together. Must be a good growing season, still got about 31 of them so I'll have to make a pawpaw forest!

Time: 25th December 2010 11:34am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
16 leaves.. that's more leaves than any of mine! Thought my ruby reds look quite healthy, melbourne just hasn't had enough heat for growth. I'm going to be getting a few more grafted asimina's as well so both us can't have our own little pawpaw forests!

Back to white sapote discussion, if you could locate a suebelle, that would be greatly appreciated. I believe Jason doesn't have a suebelle in his collection either.

Time: 25th December 2010 4:48pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
I'm onto it!

Time: 25th December 2010 11:50pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt. Gambier S.A.
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Sweet!

Time: 26th December 2010 4:30pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
:p I need to pot up about 100 seedlings into bigger pots. I did a couple test grafts using small wood but no luck so I'll wait till they harden now since I know that works. I've got some new tape since then and a few meters of parafilm so I might try some small green wood again with the better tapes. I grafted a few Avocados almost as soon as they germinated and that worked ok. But Sapotes didn't like it so much.

j does your reinecke commerical have the whole dark green leaves and red new growth going on? it's such a good looking variety, I'm only a month or so away from ripe fruit on mine for the first time, I'll take a picture of the fruit so you can see how orangeish it's going to get (I'm not sure how much myself yet) right now they are just starting to go yellow rather than green. It's a fairly flat shaped fruit. Oh yeah I also have fruit set on a small Smathers tree (wooly leaf sapote) and it's a triangular shaped fruit, very strange.

One of my seedling sapote trees has definitely set fruit so that's the most exciting thing right now. All it has to do is taste reasonable and it will be a good variety. Everything else about the tree is spot on, just the right amount of flowers, good amounts of pollen and strong growth. If it tastes good I'm going to chop the rest of the tree off (which is a Vernon) and let it be 100% seedling. So J, your collection may not be complete just yet :) and I have another 4 seedlings I'll be tasting over the next couple of years (and then doing crosses).

I'm having a problem with my Vernons trying to flower themselves to death this last year, they are just in a continuous state of heavy flowering without growing many leaves so I'm stopping feeding them anything other than straight nitrogen now to try and reverse this over flowering thing



Time: 26th December 2010 6:25pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 26th December 2010 6:30pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Sounds like we're getting close to getting some Rainbow and Suebelle grafts going (close being in six months or so, but that's great!)

Yep Jason, that pretty much describes my reinecke commercial. I would love to see some pics of the fruit! It's interesting because my reinecke was being treated like reject stock form the nursery I got it from. 15$. Bargain. So if reineck commericial can fruit in vic, then by that logic Chris, Golden Globe, Lemon gold and hawian supreme should do so as well. We'll see.

Only 1 of my vernons have flowered and is setting fruit. My ortega had a few flowers then they dropped off. So not sure whats going on there but the tree is healthy and growing and really that's all I'm concerned about now.

Jason, I've got a friend of friend who loves white sapote and spent sometime in a hippie commune in NSW growing some white sapotes. He is adamant that they can't grow and fruit here (here being the dandenongs) on a regular basis. I've told him about my vernon (he believes its a seasonal fluke) and I've told him about your and Jujube4sales tree's that are doing so well but he reckons it's a coastal effect and I'm too far away and high up in the hills for the white sapote to crop properly. I guess I'll just have to wait and prove him wrong.





Time: 26th December 2010 6:41pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Does he watch gardening Australia :), the tree in the background of the veggie garden in the botanic gardens in Hobart Tasmania is often LOADED. It's not a coastal tree, they don't grow near the coast in their natural range. They grow half way up (around Veracruz state) and inside the valley of Mexico in between Mexico DF and Puebla, up to at least 2100 meters and that's about as far removed from a coastal climate as you are going to get and apart from different day length really quite similar to Melbourne without the extreme heat waves.

I know you are at some altitude and don't have any heat island but their is people growing them well inland Vic in Daylesford :) I wouldn't even consider it possible in any way to not be able to fruit a White sapote in 99% of Victoria, it's just a very easy thing to grow.

Avocados true homeland is in the exact same region of Mexico which is considerably cooler than subtropical NSW, We don't have that pure highland race here in Australia, or if we do it's very rare, they are a thin skinned small purple fruit. You can also find Avocados on the coast (different race that's more suited to the tropics) but the genetic homeland is in the valley. Sapotes will not grow in the coastal regions of Mexico, the fruit is simply unheard of in those areas.

Ortega is not much of a fruiter, so don't expect much fruit from it. Mostly it's a very good pollinator. If you spend some time looking at the flowers on the various varieties you will see that there's some distinct forms they come in. Ortega is the type of flower that had a very small fruit part and good pollen, the female parts of the flower are really small and not well developed, this makes it not likely to pollinate very often.

Pike (and Chris) are the total opposite with a massive female part of the flower and in Pikes case it seems to be 100% male sterile, it never makes pollinated fruit by itself. Chris might make pollen but it also has very large female flowers.

Tom A from northern California wrote a bit about this once and what percentages of seedlings have what type of flower, something like 25% he felt were more or less male only, he's post should be in the cloudforest archives somewhere, maybe 5 or 6 years back. So far I've had three seedlings flower and two have been mostly male flower with really good pollen, one is even better than Ortega (but female also similar to Vernon) and the Third one is a female dominant flower type. I thought I saw a female type flower on a 4th tree there a few weeks ago but never found it a second time and it was high up in the tree a bit out of range for my eyes to see it properly, so now I'll have to wait till Autumn or next Spring to see if that was a true story or not


Time: 27th December 2010 2:10am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 27th December 2010 2:28am

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Rhys says...
The funny thing is that we have a Vernon and Ortega growing really well down in Korumburra (Ortega - 3m x 3m, Vernon - 2m x 2m), and the Ortega has been fruiting extremely heavily - it had 120 fruit on it last year (apple size), so it surprises me to hear it isn't a heavy fruiter. I thought maybe it is doing so well because it is right near the Vernon (which only flowers every two years).

Time: 4th March 2011 8:31pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Korumburra
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Rhys, that is unusual, Vernon usually flowers almost year round, Ortega flowers a lot too but the fruit are fairly small. Small apple maybe? I'd almost have to wonder if the trees aren't mix up?

Time: 4th March 2011 8:44pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Rhys says...
Can't really say about that. The Ortega seems to flower almost all the time, the Vernon flowers only in spring every second year. The Ortega is extremely vigorous, Vernon a lot slower. I guess the key would be the shape of the fruit - they are pretty different to each other. But don't have photos to show you. Both taste pretty nice.

The soil is a rich mountain loam, 1000mm rainfall - terrific fruit country really

Time: 4th March 2011 9:17pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Korumburra
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Rhys says...
P.S. I guess it would be a small apple size - more like Royal Gala than Granny

Time: 4th March 2011 9:20pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Korumburra
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I had a good close up look at Vernon and Ortega the other day, I guess the average fruit on Vernon is rounder shaped and the tree is less droopy than Ortega but they are fairly similar trees as far as white sapotes go

Time: 7th March 2011 12:12pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Have just about polished off the half doz Lemon Gold fruit (my first crop) and they were delicious! Sweet and fragrant (but not sickly so) and NO fruit fly!? I was surprised about this.

Anyway - they taste very much the same as the one's that sometimes appear in my F&V shop (grown in Gin Gin WA)
Lovely and much underrated fruit :)
I thought I may as well grow the seeds too.

Time: 7th March 2011 5:12pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Diana says...
Great to hear about the lack of fruit fly- I hope that applies to Qld fruit fly. Is your tree in its third year and about head height?

Diana.

Time: 7th March 2011 8:24pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Brisbane
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hey Diana - yes it is!? A cupla fruits that I left too long the birds n mice gobbled up. The others I picked just about to turn from lime green colour to yellow - and they ripened inside in 1-2 days.
The 1.5yr old L.Gold flowered but didn't set (trees about 4m apart) it's a similar height but half the width of the 3yr old.

Time: 7th March 2011 9:40pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Rhys says...
Well I guess I'll post some photos next time I'm up there, that might help you to identify them Jason! These aren't our biggest trees - the largest Sapote is a 5 metre Golden Globe - has a single fruit on it this year (first ever).

Thanks,

Rhys.

Time: 8th March 2011 6:50am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Korumburra
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Jason, I know this is going to sound silly, but are you sure the vernons you have are actually vernons?
Jujube4sale has said in the past that her vernon only fruits every second year. Now we have rhys here saying the same thing - fruits every second year. This website: http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/whitesapote.html states: Vernon: Tree large, rounded, vigorous but medium height. Fruit green, round oblate; flesh white, not becoming bitter when over-ripe. Alternate bearing, over the winter months. Performs well in northern California. Difficult to graft.
However, putting all that info up, I believe Glowinski's book states that vernon is an everbearer.
So I'm wondering maybe if vernons flower continiously based on climate, water and fertiliser or.... Where did you get your vernons from, Jason? Perrys? I believe Jujube4sale got hers from Daleys. Do daleys graft their own white sapotes? Or do they get them from birdwood just like perrys do? Do you see where my line of questioning is going? :) :)



Time: 8th March 2011 7:43am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 8th March 2011 7:53am

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

BJ says...
J, I have a Vernon. Purchased from Bunnings, so a Birdwood tree. Flowers and fruits almost continuously, unless its disturbed (I transplanted it about three months ago, so no flowers until now, and its pushing quite a few).

I doubt Daley's get theirs from Birdwood, as Birdwood seem to always do 6L bags, whereas Daley's are a 175mm standard.

Time: 8th March 2011 9:58am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
#UserID: 3270
Posts: 1552
View All Theposterformerlyknownas's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks for the info, BJ. Interestingly enough, I have two vernons from perrys which came in 6L bags, so they're probably from Birdwoods as well. One of them has already flowered and has one fruit. I also have two very small vernons whose original graft material came from Jujube4sales vernon tree, which again I believe came from Daleys. So it will be interesting to see how these vernons from other sources behave with flowering.

I wonder where Rhys's vernon tree came from.

I guess what I'm getting at is maybe there are two types of vernon or one of them is another variety incorrectly labeled? Probably a stretch but it's quite curious to find some vernons flowering continously & others flowering every second year..

Time: 8th March 2011 10:30am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J, mine Vernons are originally from Birdwood. They don't fruit year round, in fact until recently they used to set very little fruit, I would say have two distinct crops, Summer and Winter here.. But they do flower almost year round year after year after year, they are very heavy with the flowering, so much that it can at times set back the tree in health even without fruiting, there's only small periods where it's resting from flowering cycles.

Vernon is very famous for flowering straight away after grafting, mine do this.

I have one tree that I grafted that is half seedling half Vernon, that tree has a heavy crop of Vernon fruit now that the seedling has flowered, by far the most Vernons I've had on a tree (like 20 times more).

I can't see any possible way a Vernon would flower once each two years, none of the Californians in the cloudforest have ever said they do that. But strange things do happen with sapotes depending on the climate they are in and they are all a bit different due to random seedling rootstock variability.

I have fruit on both Vernon and Ortega (both Birdwood trees) at the moment so when they are ripe in a few months I can get some good pictures and we can solve this little mystery for sure.

P.S. Most white sapotes are capable of flowering twice per year if not almost year round, the only one I'm 100% sure can not that I have is Pike. It only flowers in Spring/late Spring. Reinecke commercial seems like it only flowers in Autumn so far, but it's only just getting really going at 10 years of age :S, its a long wait that one

Time: 8th March 2011 12:26pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 8th March 2011 12:36pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Rhys says...
Yes, we got our Vernon from Perry's too. I can't remember what sort of bag it was in (we planted it about 4 years ago.) It is quite healthy, a heavy fruiter, this is the year it does not flower/fruit. The Ortego came from Daley's nursery - this plant is a real winner for us.

The Golden Globe was a real sick old tree from Poynton's nursery (Maribrynong), but it has really kicked on.

We also have a Reinecke Commercial (I grafted it) and a Hawaiian Supreme.

The only trees that haven't grown well are the Chris - very slow growing, sick and yellow. Not at all happy.

Time: 8th March 2011 12:29pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
Korumburra
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Thanks for the reply, Jason. I think differing rootstock might be the answer. Do you know what rootstock birdwood & daleys use for their white sapotes?

Another question of Fertiliser application: Applying Potash on white sapotes, does this like citrus, help the white sapote to flower and set fruit?

EDIT:
Rhys, thanks for the reply. I got my reinecke commerical from Poyntons nursery as well and it was the same story, sickly neglected tree that is now bigger & growing faster than all my other sapotes. I believe Jason has stated in the past that CHRIS is pretty much a sickly looking tree no matter what you do. My chris is chugging along nicely. Lets see how it does this winter (its first winter in the dandenongs).

Time: 8th March 2011 12:29pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 8th March 2011 12:33pm

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J, yes it seems to make them flower a lot more. I had to totally cut it out from my fertiliser this Summer season because they wouldn't quit flowering. Now after some time on nitrogen only they are growing again rather than flowering. I only just put more complete fertiliser on 2 days ago getting ready for this rain, so I hopefully get them all on flowering schedule again for Autumn. My Chris does always look sickly, maybe it's on a rootstock that's slightly incompatible but even when I've regrafted it, it doesn't look as green as the others

Time: 8th March 2011 12:38pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 8th March 2011 12:40pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Also about Chris, since it's a pretty weak grower but tastes so good I plan to isolate some flowers next time it flowers and pollinate it with something much more vigorous and grow out those seedlings.

Hopefully I can get some of the flavour of Chris into a better growing tree. I'll probably use pollen from my most vigorous seedling depending on how it goes for taste when I finally get to try it in May/June

Time: 8th March 2011 3:37pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hey Jason, what are u using for the rootstock for grafting? It's probably been mentioned b4 (sorry) but the thread is so huge now!

Also - do u think it's worth growing up my Lemon Gold seeds at all?
Thanks as usual :)

Time: 8th March 2011 5:44pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Amanda if you have room sure!. I don't think the selected varieties are any better than seedlings with most things but especially White Sapotes and Cherimoyas which have had next to no breeding or selection.

I use mostly Pike as rootstock since it's a vigorous grower and has large seeds it's also the tree that gives me by far the most fruit so those are the seeds I have most of. If I wanted to get fancy I'd graft whatever scion I had onto a seedling of that variety just to be sure it was a close match.

I'm just seeing a video of my garden from 2003 :p gees pretty funny there's nothing more than a couple feet high, now it's getting pretty close to being jungle and so many things have moved that I didn't even remember moving or things have died that I didn't even remember having and my Holden HQ still ran :).

Since I'm in this retro stuff, I've added a couple of pictures, it wont mean much to anyone apart from Jantina who's seen them lately but when I make a new video you'll see a pretty big difference, the Macadamia is a H2 seedlings (which is now fruiting), the Sapote is my Rienecke Commercial 27-11-2003 was the date for both pictures
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2

Time: 8th March 2011 5:57pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 8th March 2011 6:24pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Cool - thanks Jason! I haven't heard of any truly "bad" specimens of this fruit yet? I couldn't imagine a L.Gold seedling would be so far off the parent as to be inedible...it's heavenly to start with! :)
Do u think they may be more vigorous in sandy loams - and therefore grafting might not really be necessary anyway..? Just thinking out loud here.

Love looking at b4 and after pics!

Time: 8th March 2011 7:35pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
They seem to grow just as well in either sand or clay. I'd be quite happy to grow all seedling everything to be honest if I could handle going 15 years without playing silly buggers with 50 fruit from grafted trees here and there it would in the long term make a better garden having all seedlings.

In the last 8? years most of what I've planted has been seedlings since I already got some grafted trees in the beginning to keep me interested while I waited. Some sapotes are going to be biased towards a good male flower and not fruit as much (but you do need those to get good pollination). Only one of the 3 seedlings I have flowering so far is a really good female flower, the other two are more on the male side but still will set a decent amount of fruit.

I think in your climate you might be able to get a sapote from germination to flowers in 5-6 years, the fastest one I've had was 7 years I think, I guess it's not much different from the time it takes for a grafted one to really get going but with seedlings you would want to plant 3 or 4 to be sure one is going to be a really heavy cropper

Time: 9th March 2011 12:25pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
It sounds sensible to try seedlings if you have the grafted plants as well. Glowinski says seedlings tend to revert to bitterness and you will not find this out until you are of pensionable age.It certainly takes more than 5 years.

Time: 9th March 2011 3:11pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
They seem pretty reliable with fruiting age to me, all the seedlings I've planted have flowered within 10 years. It seems just size related rather than how many growing seasons because the youngest one I had flower was the largest tree just because it was a vigorous one in a good spot. All Glowinski's three trees are grafted, I don't think he's grown out a seedling but a few people on the cloudforest have and all of those have had decent fruit. One that Katie Wong? grow was good enough to be propagated around, I think it's just called Katy's seedling. There's also one seedling Axel found growing randomly somewhere, that's one of the better sapotes which he's called Santa Cruz. Tom A has grown out a few seedlings which all turned out to be good but nothing out of the ordinary so far.

What I'm really hanging out for is to get a seedling Avocado to fruit, then I'll feel like I've made it somewhere with seedlings, everyone says that's a disaster waiting to happen but most of the seedlings I've seen have turned out good, only one 50 year old tree that flowers like crazy has never fruited (yet)

Time: 9th March 2011 4:25pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 9th March 2011 4:31pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

peter says...
will cuttings strike from a white sapote
and if so how long would it take
to fruit.

Time: 9th March 2011 6:50pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
adelaide
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I've heard you can make air layers *just* but they are supposed to be fairly weak rooted compared to seedlings. I think cuttings would be very difficult. Given how simple they are to graft that's probably still the easiest way to go about duplicating one even with the issue of the rootstock sometimes not matching up quite right. Time to fruit from a layer/cutting would still be the same as grafted plant

Time: 10th March 2011 12:30am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 10th March 2011 12:30am

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Hey peter, I can bring you down a couple of sapote seedlings the next time I come to Adelaide if that will help you out.

Time: 10th March 2011 9:21am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt Gambier
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
hey jason - when u get a minute would u mind posting the link to this cloud cafe site about casimoroa's please? I would love to have a read - and it might save u having to repeat yourself here? :)
I am interested in reading about this male and female flowering thing...thanks!

Time: 10th March 2011 10:00am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

BJ says...
Amanda, its http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=7053218195fd51bf161672dedd49f95e



Time: 10th March 2011 10:35am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
#UserID: 3270
Posts: 1552
View All Theposterformerlyknownas's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Amanda most of the sapote talk was years ago before the current forum. Some of the archives from the early years 1999-2002? were lost in a server disaster but a lot of years are still there, the lost ones are still in my head (hopefully) :p

The archives are here

http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/archive.html

Most of the people there are in Northern California/Southern Victoria/North Island New Zealand type cool climates but also a few from warmer places

Time: 10th March 2011 11:30am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 10th March 2011 11:49am

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

peter says...
hi jason
ok sounds like they wont strike but ill
have a go anyway and see if i have any luck.

hi jantina
thanks for the offer but i have a couple
already that i wanted to try and strike.
ive got some silvan berries that you could have on your next trip down.
also got something to show you that you
should be interested to see.




Time: 10th March 2011 8:47pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
adelaide
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
my 2nd Reinecke commercial (from daleys) which is foot tall appears to be flowering(!). Not sure what to make of this, seems really random as the other reinecke is 2+ metres tall now and is growing well but no flowers. Isn't this variety meant to fruit after 5+ years?

Time: 15th March 2011 10:12pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Just depends on how much juice you put on them as far as I can tell. Mine went 8 years with nothing more than like 3 flowers one year, after I started fertilising it heavily it's been full of flowers ever since. I have to balance the flowers now by only using nitrogen when they start to flower too much.

I think it would have flowered straight away if I knew a bit more about them in the beginning, if you have been giving the same treatment to the big one but on a larger scale I'd expect it to also flower this year (sometime in the next month)

Time: 15th March 2011 11:19pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 15th March 2011 11:20pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

adamus says...
Does anyone know which is the best variety for Cold climates?. We're a bit colder than Upwey, and a lot higher up,(1100 metres.). I know they can be grown here, but I suspect it depends on the variety.
Any ideas.?

Time: 16th March 2011 8:03am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author adamus
Armidale
#UserID: 4604
Posts: 48
View All adamus's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Adamus, I've been told Vista, Ortega, vernon and Pike are your best bets for victoria. There is a gentleman in monbulk (a bit higher than upwey) that gets snow every year and his white sapotes are fine.

Jason, I've given my white sapotes (the biggers ones) a round of fert applications a week ago. Pivot (reasonable amounts this time), epsom salts and potash. It will be interesting to see if any of them flower. So far I have only one fruit hanging off my vernon. My ortega's flowered but nothing formed. I know my pikes can fruit because I got them with massive fruit on them from perrys, but they haven't flowered since. So fingers crossed.

Btw, the vernon flowered at the end of oct 2010, will the fruit be ready to pick now or in april?

Time: 16th March 2011 9:25am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Pike wont have any proper seeded fruit unless either Ortega or perhaps Vernon is flowering at the same time. Pike isn't self fertile at all. Once you can get them all flowering at once you'll get heaps of fruit but it does take a few years.

Adamus, those 4 J mentioned are all reliable in Victoria with Pike and Vista being the heaviest and most reliable croppers of those, but you'll need either Ortega or Vernon to pollinate them. Vista and Pikes fruit is very similar with Pike being just a little larger but the Pike tree is a drooping form and Vista is more upright.

J, Vernon's spring flowering crop can be ripe anytime from about... May till sometime in Spring. Vista and Pike are a bit earlier than that usually, maybe April-May. You'll see when the fruit on Vernon is ripe it will start to go a bit more yellow in colour and look ?shiny?


Time: 16th March 2011 1:00pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 16th March 2011 1:01pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Sounds like I need to play the waiting game. Jason, I was at port fairy this weekend and debated posting on this forum to ask you if I could drop by and check your fruit orchard out in portland. In the end I ran out of time, but if I was near by portland next time, would it be possible to come around for a short visit? I would really love to see your setup and how well your trees are going. It might even convince my GF that turning our backyard into a mini orchard was a great idea!

Time: 16th March 2011 1:17pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Sure you can come around sometime, you are going to see Jantina at some point right? she's just up the road a bit

Time: 16th March 2011 1:54pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Yep that's right, We'll be doing a trip to SA in october or nov this year & Jantina invited me to drop by, so I will! So I might post back on this thread about it as I get closer to the date and organise to drop by your place in portland. Thanks, Jason.

Time: 16th March 2011 2:15pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Ok, I think November is a nicer time for plant expeditions, October is still a bit cold around these parts for anything to be looking very happy

Time: 16th March 2011 3:03pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
Jason is right and the evenings are better for firing up the pizza oven!

Time: 17th March 2011 9:39am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt Gambier
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
:) :) No probs, I will arrange (hopefully) to come down in november sometime.

Back to adamus's query: Wilson is another variety that is meant to do really well in colder climates. It's meant to fruit really well in new zealand. I've got three of em and they're small right now, so I'll let you know how they are going a in a couple of years.

Time: 17th March 2011 1:56pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

peter says...
are the bushy inner branches of a white sapote supposed to be pruned out or
just left to grow how ever it wants.

Time: 17th March 2011 5:38pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
adelaide
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I just leave mine do what they are going to do Peter, can't see the point in pruning an essentially wild tree?

Time: 17th March 2011 5:39pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

peter says...
ok thanks for that.

Time: 17th March 2011 6:24pm

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
adelaide
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

adamus says...
Thanks J for this. I used to live on Sylvan road in Monbulk, and know the winter well. If a Sapote can grow there, I'll have no probs. Cheers.

Time: 18th March 2011 6:36am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author adamus
Armidale
#UserID: 4604
Posts: 48
View All adamus's Edible Fruit Trees

adamus says...
And thanks Jason for the info. So much help here. I love the white Sapote. Can't believe it can be a cold weather plant. Cheers.

Time: 18th March 2011 6:39am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author adamus
Armidale
#UserID: 4604
Posts: 48
View All adamus's Edible Fruit Trees

Dave says...
Adam, I'm living not far from where you use to live. The sapote do great here in a choice sunny position, winter they slow a bit but at the moment for instance they are shooting new buds all the time. My Ortego has put on over 4ft the last 6 months and is only a new tree. The new growth is red tinged (particularly Reinecke variety) like an avocado's new growth, which looks great imo. No fruit from them yet as they are young, but I know several people up in the hills who get bumper crops and they are colder than me in climate. Actually they have been snowed on in Olinda, and they managed to get through that even, in a good position though with larger trees behind it to stop the frost or snow landing on it.
J, are you going to Petty's Orchard open day next week? I might see you there if you are, give us a bell if interested.

Time: 18th March 2011 12:39pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Dave
Dandenongs
#UserID: 4019
Posts: 48
View All Dave's Edible Fruit Trees

adamus says...
Thanks Dave. We get frost here from Anzac Day to Melbourne cup day. But people still grow limes and lemons and stuff. A white Sapote should be fine. A woman grows them here, but she's the only one. She's a bit higher than me, and has a warm spot north facing. I can't wait to find some trees, and get going.
They really are an amazing taste.

Time: 18th March 2011 1:08pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author adamus
Armidale
#UserID: 4604
Posts: 48
View All adamus's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Dave, I went to pettys orchard last year (where funnily enough I got my wilsons white sapotes & some pepinos) but this year Plantmark (a garden & plant whole saler) is having an open day for the general public on the same day. The prices of fertiliser, sprays, gardening stuff in general is MUCH, MUCH cheaper than at places like bunnings. I'm talking about 30%-50% off. Substantial savings, so I might have to give Pettys a miss. Again, we should catch up soon as you live around the corner. I want to know what ur secret is to getting your ortego growing 4 feet(!) this year. Mine are doing well (1 foot growth) but 4 feet. Daaaammmn! :)

Adamus, you should check out perrys in SA. I know they currently have some rather large ortega's for sale right now. They are pricy but its worth it.

Time: 18th March 2011 1:57pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Pretty much all my sapotes are throwing off last years old leaves and about to push the Autumn flowers, how about everyone else?

Time: 20th March 2011 5:26pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
One of my 4 YO seedlings has thrown off half of it's mature leaves. I couldn't believe it. It looked like the cockatoos had a go at it. Do you think it might be getting ready to flower at 4 yo?
The other 4yo seedling next to it hasn't lost a single leaf.

Time: 20th March 2011 8:07pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I'd be surprised if it was going to flower at 4 years old but it'll be dropping leaves ready for a new growth spurt instead more likely. The mature trees go in cycles of flowering in Spring then growth with leaf drop in Autumn followed by more flowers. At least that's how it works here. I think even my Pike tree will flower in Autumn this year which will be something it's never done before. I don't think it's ever had enough energy to flower in Autumn before since at this time of year it's always loaded with a couple hundred fruit and fairly stressed

Time: 20th March 2011 8:32pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 20th March 2011 8:32pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
None of my trees are flowering at the moment (with the exception of that foot tall reinecke commercial. Not holding my breath on getting fruit from that). I've noticed all my fruit tree flowering in upwey seems to be a few weeks behind the fruit tree flowering in melbourne. So maybe there's hope yet. They generally flower between now and winter, correct?

Time: 20th March 2011 9:07pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Yep, not quite yet. Melbourne is quite a bit warmer and earlier than me too, I'll let you know when mine have open flowers but I don't think it'll be for another month or so. Things are starting to move now but actual flowers will be a while away

Time: 21st March 2011 3:40pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs304

Good link & read on all things related to white sapte. They don't cover all the different varieties, but its still a good read for white sapote noobs.

Time: 28th March 2011 9:15am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Thanks J - it is a good link :) I have left it too late to plant my seeds tho' :-( They have been out for 6 weeks?

Time: 28th March 2011 11:52am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

adamus says...
J, Hi. I just procured two 1.5 metre high specimens from a little nursery in Bellingen. They don't know the variety, !!!!!, but assure me that they're self fertile.
I'll keep 'em inside for the winter, and then they're on their own. Weird they didn't know the variety.
Oh, I rang Perry's , but they don't do white sapote.

Time: 28th March 2011 5:48pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author adamus
Armidale
#UserID: 4604
Posts: 48
View All adamus's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
Are they grafted adamus? Most small time nurseries only get in seedlings.

Time: 28th March 2011 7:00pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
adamus, are you sure you rang perrys fruit and nut in South australia? http://www.perrysfruitnursery.com.au/trees.php

You can see white sapote listed on the bottom of the page, and I've bought about 5 white sapote trees off them. And I spoke to them 3 weeks ago and they said they had some very good size ortego white sapotes in stock.

In regards to the trees u just bought, Take some pictures and put em up. I'm sure jason would take a shot at identifying them.

Time: 28th March 2011 8:17pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 28th March 2011 8:19pm

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Might not be able to ID them perfectly but narrow it down to a couple or few at least (if they are a common variety)

Time: 28th March 2011 8:31pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Jason, would it be possible to get some pike seeds from you in the next couple of months?

My uncle has some spare property he's not using (about an acre) and he's quite happy for me to plant some fruit trees there as long as he doesn't have to do anything. Seems to me seedling white sapotes should be a pretty hassle free rare fruit tree to grow.

Time: 1st April 2011 11:49am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Yeah sure they will be ripe soon, You'll probably need to germinate them in pots since they need a bit of warmth to get going then plant them out in early Summer or something. That's about as fast as you'll be able to get them in the ground this year. Depending on the soil you might have to throw some fertiliser on them once in a while. But Avocados are probably more care free and worth actual money so I'd think about throwing some Hass trees in there :)

Time: 1st April 2011 12:07pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
The problem is, I believe the land is flat and prone to water clogging. Not sure avocado's would do well with zero care & water clogging.
Wouldn't white sapotes grown in melbourne and sold in melbourne fetch a decent price at local markets, considering its so rare to find good white sapote fruit at markets in general?

Either I'm going to have a closer look at the property this weekend, and I'll let you know if I need the seeds (I probably will either way, I might take a shot at grafting onto seedlings & spread the white sapote tree goodness around). Please Send me an email: jmubaraki@hotmail.com

Could I put the seed directly into the ground and grow it like that? any reasons why that wouldn't work? Seedlings grown straight from the ground have better root systems, more drought tolerant, right?

Time: 1st April 2011 12:38pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 1st April 2011 12:55pm

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
I ended up making a video of my garden, partly to chart its progress every couple of years and see how much it has grown. This vid is unedited so there's some detailed shots of my trees and then some!
The last few minutes of the vid are in my front yard, most of the vid is shot in my backyard.

http://vimeo.com/21871952

I've included some names & times in the description, so you can name the trees you are looking at.

Time: 4th April 2011 8:09am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 4th April 2011 11:33am

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jantina says...
It's a credit to you J, it's certainly grown since we were there and all looks super healthy.

Time: 4th April 2011 11:38am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author Jantina
Mt Gambier
#UserID: 1351
Posts: 1272
View All Jantina's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Yes it has! I've found the trees really love miraclegro & other liquid based fertilisers (thanks for advice, lucy!. It also helps that the weather as been mild and has enabled most of the trees to establish themselves without the stress of a super hot summer. I look forward to your next visit & visiting your place soon, jantina!

Time: 4th April 2011 12:10pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J, those trees all look to be in exceptional health!, probably showing up even a few Queenslanders I'd say. It's all a bit amazing considering you are no where near the heat of the city and at altitude. I was never able to get mine to grow that well at a young age, this year has been the magic year for me too so I guess you were lucky to get this one right when the trees were young. The growth on the citrus is showing your soil must be really good too.

I'm wondering since all those trees look to be growing so well what you could plant to push your limits a bit, I think you could definitely go one step more sub tropical than I can.

Got to say I'm pretty jealous of that Cherimoya of yours, it's going to do good things for you, I can tell already

Time: 4th April 2011 1:26pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 4th April 2011 1:34pm

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hey jason, thanks! I've got mountain soil and a decent slop, so I think that helps as well. Keep in mind a lot of those trees outside of the bigger white sapotes, citrus, guavas & feijoas haven't been through an dandenong ranges winter yet. I'm not concerned about the smaller white sapote or decidous trees but stuff like the avocados, southern knight cherimoya, babaco, wampi, icecream bean ,west indian limes & jaboticaba haven't really been put to the test with cold around my area. I'm not super concerned, they should be ok. I'm a little concerned the babaco, cherimoya & avocado's may succumb to root rot but I'll be watched them closely and spraying them with yates anti root rot every month in winter. Fingers crossed.

As far as subtropicals go, I've got my kensington pride mango that survived last winter outside with no protection in a pot. It's in the ground now, so again I think it should be ok. The only other subtropical I'm interested in is the sapodilla of which I have two. I'll protect them during the winter (I'll be getting that green house soon) for a couple of years till they get bigger and then we'll see how they go.

Incidently Jason, I should thank you for recommending the pivot stuff (and all the other bits of advise you've given me, seriously dude, you've been a huge help). After learning not to put truck loads of pivot fert on my trees, they've all responded quite well to smaller applications of it since early summer.


EDIT: What did you think of my spacing with the bigger white sapote trees near the start of the video? I know they are quite close to each other, but I plant on training them. do you think that will work?


Time: 4th April 2011 2:01pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 4th April 2011 2:37pm

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Dave says...
Hey J,
Very nice vid, like Jason has said all look really healthy. Can't wait to see how your food forest develops over the next few years. I like the way you've placed your trees too with the local rocks inbetween. We must do the garden visit swap soon, just been super busy myself. I did go to the apple tasting festival at petty's, it was a great day, plenty of people. Spoke to Costa from Costa's Garden for a bit, good guy. There were some really interesting ideas floating around on what and how to grow in the melbourne area, with plenty of permaculture techniques being mentioned. The variety of apples at the tasting were quite good also, I liked half of them more than any i'd tried in the last 6 months from the local grocer. Laxton's superb, gravenstein, Pine golden pippin, summer strawberry, so many lovely tastes. Check them out:
http://www.heritagefruitssociety.org.au/varieties/apples/


Time: 4th April 2011 2:45pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Dave
Dandenongs
#UserID: 4019
Posts: 48
View All Dave's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
About your spacing, with the rate of growth you are getting you will definitely have a jungle quite soon :). I don't know if I'd prune them or just leave the strongest survive. They will all do well for long enough for you to see which varieties are going to be fruitful for you. You can cut sapotes as much as you want and they will keep growing back but the problem is they will grow back really fast as soon as you cut them so I'm not sure if you would be able to keep them small and still have lots of fruiting wood. Maybe if you continuously pick the tips off new growth each time it's a foot long you'll be able to make the trees more bushy, rather than having to actually prune branches off.

Without pruning in ten years all your sapotes will be at least 20 feet tall the way they are going and I wouldn't be surprised if your Avocados do about that also so if you stand back and imagine that. Then you'll be able to prepare yourself for how much you will have to prune things. Also Vista and Reinecke commercial will grow more upright than Vernon and Ortega and both those will be more upright than Pike. Babaco will melt anytime it's just under 0c but the thicker part of the trunk will survive. I don't have any issues with root rot here during Winter so hopefully you wont either.

It's not super wet here but wet enough for leeches to survive in the garden so it's not exactly dry either

Time: 4th April 2011 2:48pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hey dave, thanks. The rocks all came out of the holes I dug for the plants (which were wide and deep, so I got plenty of them). Rather than throw them way I used them as a base of sorts around the holes. A lot of the soil I dug out was filled with rocks and roots, so within the holes themselves I had to put in organic soil. The apple tasting sounds great even though apples aren't really my fav fruit. Let me know when you want to catch up. Anytime.

Jason, yep it sounds like I'll be doing some crafty pruning over the years. The tree placement I put in place (especially with the white sapotes) was to have the pollinators on each end of the row, so the wind or insects can take care of the pollination for me. Also I've planted most of the trees close to each other so I don't have to deal with ANY Grass in the backyard in a few years. The trees will be taking all available sunlight and the grass can just go piss off. :)

My biggest worry for my garden is two things. 1) The damn gum trees dropping branches and destroying my fruit trees. I've already had a rather large branch fall and take out a good half of one of my American pawpaws. and 2) Bush fires. Upwey haven't lost any houses for 40+ years (that I'm aware of) but I'd be destroyed if I my garden was doing uber well and got wiped out by a bush fire. But I guess I gotta live with that risk.

Time: 4th April 2011 4:09pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
White Sapote fruit now available in Woolies and some F&V shops (in WA anyway..) for anyone interested in tasting this lovely fruit :)

I splurged on one yesterday ($15/kilo) hopefully they will get cheaper in the future!

Time: 9th April 2011 10:58am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
I'd love to taste a white Sapote, never tried or seen one yet. I bought seedling trees a few years ago not knowing they are going to take up to 8 years to fruit and then could be feral. My grafted varieties, 5 different cv's to date, are still very young and might take another year or so to produce anything.
Lucky you Amanda, are they as nice as they say?

Time: 9th April 2011 12:16pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I know I grow lots of them, but I only eat bout 2 White Sapotes a year. There always seems to be better fruits ripe at the same time. The other 500 fruit just go to mulch, This year I'm planing on freezing them in bags of pulp to make smoothies from them

Time: 9th April 2011 12:36pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
I like them John Mc... for me - they taste like a custard apple but without the grainy texture (the pulp is a little like avocado - those one's with the 'wet' flesh) and the seeds so easy to take out - leaving plenty of pulp to eat...

They are quite sweet and fragrant so might not appeal to all taste buds. I have the lemon gold - and apparently it's not as sickly sweet as some varieties - I am happy with it! Smoothies sound good Jason! You could always add something a little zingy like kiwi fruit, strawberries or passionfruit juice too ...mmmm...?

Time: 10th April 2011 11:57am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton, Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
Sounds like something to look forward to???? I dug up and moved my Hawaiian special this morning only because I thought it could grow better in it's new location.

Time: 10th April 2011 1:40pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
J, do you have Autumn flowers yet? most of mine have buds now. Pike didn't want to know about flowering again in Autumn even though I thought it would this year. Seems it's just not able to do that.

John Mc, good luck with the move, I haven't tried moving a sapote but I should have moved quite a few of them so let us now if that transplants ok. I'm still waiiiiiting un patiently from my Chris to flower again so I can cross breed it with my seedling of awesome sapote (that I haven't tasted yet:P but everything else about it is awesome including flowering again right now which means so far it's a double cropping most likely self pollinating variety with good quality pollen). If I can get some of those qualities in a sapote that tastes like Chris I'll have really achieved something worthwhile I think :)

I'm going to have to cheat this a bit and graft the seedlings (when I get them) onto large established trees to speed things up slightly

Time: 11th April 2011 6:15pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

kert says...
If by the "Hawaiian special" you mean Hawaiian Supreme then it definitely needs a cross pollinator. No cross pollinator means golf ball sized fruit.

Time: 12th April 2011 8:44am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
sydney
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

John Mc says...
I don't have to be blonde to have a blonde moment.

Yes I meant Hawaiian Supreme. I have around 5 cv's including Ortega and lemon gold which should do the trick.

Time: 12th April 2011 9:22am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author JohnMc1
 
#UserID: 2743
Posts: 2043
View All JohnMc1's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Finally found out who grows these in WA - and it's an orchard down in Metricup! (just north of Margaret River) Spoke to the very nice man there and he told me he has about 28 varieties??
Just for interest: He says they are quite southern for w.sapote but he doesn't get frost (8 kms inland) He mentioned lots of feeding needed to keep the yield up - and a touch of boron may be needed if fruit not ripening. He also mentioned one variety that always looks as tho' it has a nutrient deficiency with yellowish leaves (can't remember which one now..) and that he really likes the flavour of Reinecke commercial - but he doesn't market them as they have a skin marking that always makes them look like they have a fungus.

Anyway - I have 3 of his perfect fruit (no sprays used) at only $2.50 each to taste test in about 2 days... :-) I will compare the flavour to my lemon golds (which he only uses as a pollinator at this stage as his trees a bit young)

Time: 12th April 2011 12:13pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton, Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
That's interesting I seem to prefer the green fruits Pike/Vernon/Vista. But I've read that it really depends on the person if they like either the green types or yellow type of flavour. One good thing about the trees is I can't imagine ever needing to spray white sapote for anything, maybe unless you live somewhere that has fruit flys?

Time: 12th April 2011 1:05pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Jason, I've just checked my trees for flower buds. There's lots of new leaf growth on all the plants, but I can't really tell if they are forming buds or not. My vista might be, 1 of the ortegas has something that looks a little bit like buds and my 1 foot tall reinecke has 4 flowers opening right now. That's it. The vernons and the pikes seem to be popping leaf out like crazy.

Amanda, 28 Varieties!?! You should ask him for a list for comparison! (and grafting material!!)

Time: 12th April 2011 3:29pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
Upwey, Victoria
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
Hmm.. I could be mistaken but my foot tall Lemon gold and pike (both from daleys) appear to be flowering..

Which is very interesting, because my other foot tall lemon gold (also from daleys) is sitting around doing not much at all, while my much much bigger two Pikes are sprouting new growth like crazy but aren't interested in flowering.

My two ortega's have some flowers forming (not many but a few), while my one of my vernons which has the only fruit from any of my white sapotes, appears to be flowering again. and then there's that tiny reinecke commerical with a few flowers while the two meter reinecke commerical just wants to grow and grow. Not sure whats going on at all. Most of my small foot tall sapotes want to flower, the bigger ones just want to grow!

Time: 25th April 2011 8:17pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
uopwey
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
I still can't get my Pike to flower in Autumn, it never has in 11 years, but it's been very (%100) reliable in Spring once it was up to size.

My Lemon gold is flowering as is Reinecke, Vernon's, Ortega and two of my seedlings.

My Reinecke didn't flower reliably for at least 8 years so don't panic about that too much. You never quite know what you are going to get with grafted sapote behavior wise because the rootstocks influence them so much. Only one thing almost certain, your bigger Pikes will flower in Spring and you must be due for a decent crop on them since they have some size now.

My Pikes must be only a couple weeks away from being ripe so I'll have those seeds soon

Time: 25th April 2011 8:37pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Taste tested my Lemon Gold against the commercial few I bought...the LG won hands down (but maybe because it was home grown in a warmer climate and more harshly treated.....who knows)
My LG was more complex, richer and fragrant. Much more custard apple like.

Time: 25th April 2011 9:38pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
The one you bought were a green skinned white fleshed one I guess?

Time: 25th April 2011 10:06pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
When I got my big pikes from perry's they were loaded with fruit, so yeah this coming spring I should in theory be due for something from those pikes. I still think it's interesting that three of my foot tall sapotes (reinecke, pike and lemon gold) are floweing. Must be connected to some super rootstock or something. Wonder if daleys use any particular variety for rootstock or just any seed that comes to them.

Amanda, I too get a distinct custard appleish taste from what ever white sapotes I've eaten so far (mostly pike and ortego). I know people say sapotes taste like banana custard.. I don't really see it my self..

Jason, I'm still quite keen on getting those pike seeds off you. My brother just moved into his new home and has plenty of room for some seedlings. I'd like the spread the sapote love around. Genetic diversity and all that. Let me know via this thread or jmubaraki@hotmail.com when the seeds are available. I'm happy to pay for them. Thanks in advance!

Time: 25th April 2011 10:39pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
uopwey
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
lol I think you all are eating some very bad custard apples :P or at least not Cherimoyas.

Sapotes are good but they are not blow your mind good like a decent Cherimoya is.

J, your small trees have probably just sucked up the fertilizer faster, they are almost totally food dependent when deciding if they will flower or not and how much and for how long :). I'm happy to send a decent but not absurd amount of sapote seeds to any regulars on here for postage costs, just so I don't go backwards. I'll probably have something like 400 seeds doing nothing within the next few months and there's always more every year. Leave a bit of space though because I'm going to need some help growing out some seedlings once I start breeding them deliberately


Time: 25th April 2011 11:46pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Hi Jason - yea the bought ones were/are green skin/white flesh (quite large too - with a pointy bottom) - they are not as atemoya-like as my lemon gold (have yet to taste a cherimoya!?) but I must admit that my home grown atemoya is better :)
Some folk don't like the grainy flesh and seeds - so perhaps a good casimoroa may be an option...
Looking forward to hearing about this Rainbow variety one of these days too..

Time: 27th April 2011 9:33am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
A good Cherimoya tastes exactly like "fruit tingles" except made from a juicy fruit rather than lollies, so now you know :). It's much more acidic and "fizzy" than an Atemoya, Cherimoyas don't taste sweet or acid but somewhere right smack in the middle (if it's a good one). But they don't taste that good in my climate, probably at Kerts house they do.

Green skinned sapotes with a pointed bottom could be a few different ones but I understand the flavour of those kind of sapotes, it's more plain, more caramel rather than fruity





Time: 27th April 2011 4:27pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

randey says...
hey amanda, how are you doing "property selling" wise. i hope that where ever you end up that you continue with the gardening. i know that is fraught with disappointments but the successes make it worthwhile. being able to walk out your back door and grab a handful of pitanga cherries or whatever just can`t be beaten. if you end up in a more tolerable location let me know and i will endeavour to get a red pitaya to you.

Time: 28th April 2011 7:07pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author randey
perth
#UserID: 2306
Posts: 104
View All randey's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Thanks randey - that's a nice offer...most of my special plants coming too...just hope I can dig up the white sapotes this winter too...fingers crossed!

Time: 29th April 2011 1:14am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Rob says...
Hey Jason,
Are you able to please contact me on inhernest(at)live.com i have a favour to ask you.
Cheers
Rob


Time: 2nd May 2011 7:54pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Rob10
 
#UserID: 3961
Posts: 24
View All Rob10's Edible Fruit Trees

BJ says...
Something interesting I've stumbled upon with my tree, I trimmed back nearly all of the leaves on one small limb in preparation for using as a scion, but i left it on the tree. A few weeks later and that limb is completely covered in flowers and small fruit. It has well over 10x the amount of flowers/fruit as any other limb.

Time: 7th May 2011 8:01am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
#UserID: 3270
Posts: 1552
View All Theposterformerlyknownas's Edible Fruit Trees

peter says...
hi bj.
interesting, i might try that on one of my trees which seem reluctant to flower. do you know when the flowering times should be for adelaide.

Time: 7th May 2011 8:48am

Reply | Edit | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author
adelaide
#UserID: 0
Posts:
View All 's Edible Fruit Trees

randey says...
after my sapote had been in the ground for about 4 years without doing anything a burmese friend suggested i hit the trunk with the back of an axe. a bit drastic you might think, but it worked and within a couple of weeks flower buds started appearing and it has not stopped. i usually get 2 crops per year. just dont get carried away with the axe and make sure it is the blunt side ( no oops).

Time: 7th May 2011 1:16pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author randey
perth
#UserID: 2306
Posts: 104
View All randey's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
wow Jason - I see what u mean about the seeds - they are very fertile aren't they! I planted the seed from the one's I bought (above) and they are up already! (about 1.5 weeks)

How big/thick does a seedling need to be b4 it's acceptable for grafting onto?

Time: 8th May 2011 12:59pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Gerladton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

J says...
randey, what variety of white sapote was it that you whacked with the back of an axe handle?

Time: 8th May 2011 2:13pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author J
uopwey
#UserID: 2954
Posts: 397
View All J's Edible Fruit Trees

randey says...
hey amanda, i was talking to a friend who used to work at the ag dept and he suggested that you wait until the stem has at least moved from 1st year growth (ie green) to when the cadmium layer has hardened (2nd year at least). a simple V cut is quite common in grafting making sure that knife you are using has been sterilized and there are no ragged fibres on either end. making sure that both end are meeting neatly tightly wrap the union in a quality wax tape ensuring that there are no air pockets. have used this technique on my mango and several other fruit trees. also on apple trees where you can graft up to 4-5 types of apples. hope this helps.

Time: 12th May 2011 9:45pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author randey
perth
#UserID: 2306
Posts: 104
View All randey's Edible Fruit Trees

randey says...
hi j, mine is the wilson varity

Time: 12th May 2011 9:47pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author randey
perth
#UserID: 2306
Posts: 104
View All randey's Edible Fruit Trees

Jason says...
Amanda, when the bark is hard is good (when it goes white/grey) try and wait till the wood is hard above some leaves so you can have some leaves still on it below the graft. I find them most easy to graft when planted in the ground so I'd suggest planting them out next Spring and then grafting in maybe Autumn or the Spring after depending how fast they grow at your place.

But yeah sapotes are a 100% germination kind of tree :), if you take the seed coat off before you plant them and have a heat pad or something set at 25c they can come up in like 3 days.

My sapote fruits still aren't ripe this year yet but you should see some of the fruit on my Vista tree this year......... massssssive, a few are probably bigger than those Pike fruit I posted in a picture in this thread. That tree is really booming now after years of being slow, it grew about 6 foot last season and is still in active growth now

Time: 13th May 2011 12:00am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 13th May 2011 12:08am

About the Author Jason
Portland
#UserID: 637
Posts: 1217
View All Jason's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Great thanks randey and Jason...I will give it a go down the track :)
My lemon golds have started a big growth flush now - despite no rain. Maybe it's because the weather has cooled..will keep my eye out for flowers now. They are a strange plant..? Sounds like you have them sorted out Jason.

Time: 13th May 2011 9:03am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Gerladton. Mid West WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees