Shahtoot (forum)

matt starts with ...
Hi,
Does anyone know what nurseries are selling the Shahtoot White Mulberry?

Time: 26th August 2010 6:13pm

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Rev says...
daleys :)

if they are not
email me, i do have a friend who lives in the mountains, hes got a great subtropical permaculture garden, makes his own fruit wine and cheese from his own milking oats

this mulberry is great in the subtropics, or mediterranean
grows like the clappers. Planted it oct 2007, by spring 2008 it was loaded and the kids feasted. it was also about 2.8-3m tall. i planted it at the base of a hill where there is outflow of the subsurface groundflow from a perched aquifer, slightly saline (3-7ppt). i gave it a little phosphate, some mineral ferts (dolimite, lime) and a one off NPK (few handfuls around anticipated rootzone).glyposated and then Mulched with treelopping mulch to 1m.
Its now got a concord grape alongside but i havent been back to see. lets see what 2 years and no care amounts to at the end of the year..

at any rate this is THE mulberry for the subtropics as far as i know (AFAIK)



Time: 26th August 2010 7:03pm

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About the Author Rev
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Rev says...
btw, im talking about Northern but inland NSW, not qld
Ive seen mulberres here - but only M alba and they yield poorly
they really need to try the shahtoot up here
Townsville is JUST cold enough to try

Time: 26th August 2010 7:06pm

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Charles cant spell says...
Well Lena Nursery in WA had a grower raising tissue culture stock or something 2 years ago but they lost the whole batch.
This spring, very soon Lena will be getting in limited stock from the same grower.

So if WA Nurseries have access to White Shatoot the rest of Aust should.


Time: 26th August 2010 9:21pm

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About the Author Charlesstillcantspell1
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John Mc says...
Failing all that, if Daley's can't help you I have some cuttings stuck in the ground from my last prune a week or so ago. I did a major prune, it was producing far too much fruit.
Here's a pic of it in fruit and then a pic of my recent prune.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2

Time: 28th August 2010 7:06pm

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Rev says...
I dont get why its rare

in 1998? bought cuttings from Recher (member here)
of several Morus species, to WA

of all of them it was ths one that struck

and it grew lke the clappers then
I left a nice tree at ?? damn i forget number
Coolbellup...
if anyone wants to go knock on their door ill dig up my old address..
i planted it on the northern side and in march 2003 it was thriving and fruiting from a plant thahd been carted about for many years

anyway theres a plant labelled as red shahtoot in the cenetneary lakes botanic gdns in cairns
.. i wonderbecause its bloody massive tree and ve always found the red shahtoot to be a weakling - albeit a more tasty one!
i took cuttngs but the failed
only just though. they hung on but themix got too wet and spoiled the callus

ill try active growth cuts this summer

ive lost my IBA, that stuff is gold !
ill get some more, if anyone needs a nice tub of it contact me, its not expensive and it works miracles

Time: 28th August 2010 7:08pm

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About the Author Rev
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peter says...
i got my red and white shatoots from
perrys fruit and nuts here in adelaide.

Rev whats IBA?

Time: 28th August 2010 8:17pm

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John Mc says...
indole-3-butyric acid (IBA)They use it on plant cutting propagation methods.

Time: 28th August 2010 9:01pm

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speedy says...
I planted a white shahtoot (grafted onto M.alba) in my brother's chookpen in about 1991 and it's massive.
last year he got to it with the chainsaw and cut it to a stump above head height.
Looking at it today, the regrowth from the last 12mths is about 5m or more high.
perfect for big straight truncheon cuttings to plant direct into the ground.

I've often thought that the reason for the Red Shahtoot being a bit slow and sicky
may be a graft incompatibility with the mulberry rootstock that its often grown on.
or that the mulberry has a dwarfing effect on that clone.??

Growing red shahtoot seedlings would be worth a try.
1- to grow on its own roots and avoid suspected incompatibility
and 2- to possibly select and more vigorous growing individuals.

the red is really the one to go for as far as the flavour goes,
and to have one grow as well as the white would be really good.

The white shahtoot fruits, I prefer dried.
then it's really good

Time: 28th August 2010 9:46pm

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peter says...
thanks for that info john mc.
speedy,
straight truncheon cuttings direct
into the ground.
have you done that before with the
shahtoots, perrys insist that they
dont strick from cuttings but id like
to try it with mine.


Time: 28th August 2010 10:34pm

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Jantina says...
Hi Rev, where do you buy that IBA ? thanks.

Time: 29th August 2010 9:32am

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About the Author Jantina
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Rev says...
IBA

http://www.gardennurseryproducts.com.au/

hey speedy

whats this about seeds?
ive always wanted to grow the shahtoot, but where are the seeds?
is it that we have to grow a red and a white alongside?
or are they dioecious?

Time: 29th August 2010 8:15pm

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About the Author Rev
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Brad says...
If anyone has access to an example of these in Perth, I'd like to check them out. Something I'm considering for the new garden

Time: 29th August 2010 11:55pm

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About the Author Brad2
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speedy says...
The red one appears to have seeds.
I dont actually have one atm, but when in NNSW i was eating some and had a close look at the fruits and noticed what appeared to be small, but sound seed.
I collected some ,intending to try to sprout some ,but as with a lot of great ideas, it wasn't followed up on.

the tree was in a spot without white shahtoot close by, from memory.

With most (all?) red shahtoot trees I've seen the understock (M.alba or M.rubra) is much larger than the scion.
this seems more so, the older the tree is.
I'd like to see how they go on their own roots wheather marcotted or cuttings.
another way to do it would be to tie a wire ring around trunk above graft and plant it with graft union below soil level.
the wire would strangle the rootstock and induce roots from the scion thunk under the soil.

.

Time: 31st August 2010 12:46am

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speedy says...
"Shahtoot don't grow from cuttings"
yes I've heard that, and have only had success grafting to mulberries (white and red).
I've tried with 30cm long x 1-2cm dia without success, but then Rev said he has grown
them from cuttings (a diferent clone , or the right treatment or timing maybe?)

anything other than the above methods may not be viable for commercial nursery,
and grafting to mulberry (seedlings or cuttings) is easy so the method of larger cuttings may not have been explored

some unlikely plants can be grown from large cuttings
eg. I've tried 2-3cm dia. x 50cm long cuttings of pecan (Western Schley) treated with 8000ppm IBA.
They grew roots, but I gave up on them as they weren't growing well enough.

I put it down to the less than favorable climate for them here (humidity too low and too hot),
the point being that they grew roots to start with.
Something I'd never have suspected , or tried if not for a scant piece
of info I came across indicating that it has been done successfuly in USA.

I have grown large mulberry cuttings before, without hormone.
Shahtoot, I think would be possible with the use of hormone (IBA)

I pruned the tree down yesterday, so I'll give some 2m long cuttings a go after IBA tretment.

I'll try different concentrations.

Time: 31st August 2010 1:16am

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John Mc says...
I didn't take too much care with my cuttings, I didn't need any more Shahtoot's anyway. I just cut up a dozen or so pencil thick branches and shoved them in the ground for the hell of it. The swelling buds are only stored energy from last growing season.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 31st August 2010 4:30pm

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Rev says...
"but as with a lot of great ideas, it wasn't followed up on."

dont feel bad mate
in an ideal world we'd be funded
with staff

you have to take confidence tha the world really has missed its mark
Gen Z will be selling mobile phones, and the opportunities of a millenium will run to spoil

but we do what we can. lucky nature is still so bountiful and giving

Time: 31st August 2010 8:36pm

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Original Post was last edited: 31st August 2010 8:42pm

About the Author Rev
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Rev says...
im about to play with some Musa tissue culture
i may have a play with moraceae while im at it
namely breadfruit
but there nothing to stop a go at shahtoot mulberry

ill report back if it eventuates
give it 12 months min

Time: 31st August 2010 8:44pm

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byron says...
i got a nicely established White Shahtoot,potted, about 6 ft.
Ive heard theyre pretty tough in the ground, can even handle ehavy clay? is that true?
Also, anyone know where i could find Red shahtoot in WA?

One last thing... DESPERATELY seeking Quercus macrocarpus, the Burr Oak, edible acorns, looking to play with a few dozen on permaculture property.
would pay for acorns to be mailed??

thanks

Byron

Time: 28th November 2010 11:47am

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epiphany says...
Our white shahtoot is in heavy clay & it's doing well. It's been in the ground just over a year & has been pruned twice since then - it's currently over 6ft tall (from a 20cm seedling + two heavy prunes). It's also setting fruit at the moment & I discovered the other day, quite by accident, that unripe (green) fruit that falls to the ground is also quite delicious - they taste like a cross between cucumber & apple & are quite sweet, even though they're unripe. Next time I prune it I might try doing some cuttings with rooting hormone - it can't hurt to try.

Can't help with Burr Oak acorns, unfortunately, but we collect white oak acorns from a local park every year - they're good for grinding & adding to flour when baking. This year, I'm going to try extracting acorn oil with my oil press.

Time: 28th November 2010 8:58pm

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Original Post was last edited: 28th November 2010 8:59pm

About the Author epiphany2
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ff says...
Would anyone be able to give me a few cuttings of their red shahtoot tree for me to try and graft onto my white shahtoot tree? I have run out of space for an additional tree so am trying to make the best use of the space i have. I am in Adelaide. Thanks

Time: 6th December 2012 1:47am

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About the Author ff
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peter 1000 says...
hi ff
ive got red shahtoot
post your email and ill get in touch.

Time: 6th December 2012 7:53am

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denise1 says...
Hi Rev, how did you get on with the tissue culture.

Time: 6th December 2012 9:24am

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peter 1000 says...
ok ff have got it and deleted it.

Time: 6th December 2012 12:26pm

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Original Post was last edited: 6th December 2012 12:27pm
About the Author peter 1000
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