Spring Sprays (forum)

Jimmy starts with ...
Guys

Here in Perth warm weather has caused low chill stonefruit and apples and almonds to flower.

Get a copper spray on NOW !!!

Kocide, Bordeaux or Copper oxychloride, it's your choice.

It is such and easy cheap spray and is a great fungal fighter.

Time: 5th August 2010 12:58pm

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Brad says...
agree - we're also having still damp mornings

Time: 5th August 2010 2:17pm

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Jantina says...
agree, or regret as the curly leaves emerge.

Time: 6th August 2010 8:59am

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amanda says...
Too late! I missed the boat already :(( we are in full bloom. What happened to winter anyway!!?? It's disgustingly beautiful and warm here (and no rain for weeks either...)


Time: 6th August 2010 10:00am

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Jimmy says...
you can use bravo after bud burst as a stop gap.

Time: 6th August 2010 12:58pm

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Brad says...
I just read the label sheet for bravo I didn't see anything about why you can spray it in bloom. It clearly states it works as a protective spray, not to fight an infestation.

I asked a couple week back about my blueberries which were in bloom with mildew. Still not sure what I should have sprayed, but I guessed.

You spray next at petal drop?

Time: 6th August 2010 1:53pm

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Brendan says...
What about Mancozeb Plus? That can be safely sprayed on open flowers :-)

Time: 7th August 2010 7:53am

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Original Post was last edited: 8th August 2010 6:54am

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amanda says...
I have not had an incidence of leaf curl in 4 yrs...is it very common?

I am not very good at keeping up with the winter sprays and have got away with it so far? (likely cos' I have so much empty land around me)

Time: 7th August 2010 10:44am

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Brad says...
That and you don't really have winter :)

Time: 7th August 2010 8:11pm

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Jason says...
Leaf curl makes peaches not really worth it for us, unless you have seedlings which are a bit stronger and don't seem to get worried by it much

Time: 7th August 2010 11:51pm

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amanda says...
Yea Brad - I got caught out badly this season - trees have hardly dropped last seasons leaves. Might be a rotten stone fruit season again this year??

Time: 8th August 2010 12:18pm

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Jimmy says...
Try the spray guide form the Ag dept.

www.agric.wa.gov.au

Time: 9th August 2010 1:50pm

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BJ says...
Is spraying really necessary? As a total novice I 'encouraged' my trees to loose all their leaves, and I have them pruned so that no branches or leaves are more than a meter from the ground (apparently the fungus hides in the soil and splashes up in the rain).
My peaches have loads of flowers and leaves now and nothing looks remotely curly ... can I get away without spraying by controlling the shape of the tree or am I kidding myself?

Time: 9th August 2010 4:12pm

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amanda says...
Todays crop - it is weird to be getting so much passionfruit and have all the stone fruit in flower at the same time?

BJ - I am not sure but I would think that if your leaves are coming thru' fine then u will be ok....I don't keep up with my spraying (not suggesting it's the right/wrong thing to do tho') and my leaves have never started out normal and then gone curly later..?

I guess it may a case of once it appears in your orchard then may be at risk thereafter...not sure tho.

Jimmy would know?
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Time: 10th August 2010 4:35pm

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brad says...
the ag dept advice (and similar) is aimed at orchards with regular inspection and experience dictating what to do to ensure you stay in business. the home fruit grower has a responsibility to minimise pests and disease that affect their neighbours and industry, but its different. i was asking Jimmy above what he does in his home garden, to see if he does different to orchards.

I got started without stonefruit, apples etc to not worry so much about spraying, netting etc. But I'm about to inherit what looks like cherries, peaches and maybe a few others. I was given an apple, so I'll have a couple apple trees too.

@amanda :new place has a huge passionfruit. shame I'll never see my planting in como fruit

Time: 10th August 2010 5:37pm

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Original Post was last edited: 12th August 2010 3:38pm

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BJ says...
Thanks guys - I very much agree with Brad. The home grower should take all reasonable measures to prevent pests (and I do). But if I can erradicate the disease using cheaper (albeit more time-consuming) organic methods I'd rather do that - even at the expense of a bit of fruit. I just want to make sure that my technique is not causing me to harbour disease.

Time: 10th August 2010 7:45pm

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amanda says...
BJ - your thinking is sound - in that pruning for better airflow and light exposure and is a great start to preventing disease in the first place.

One of the things I have noticed on this forum (and I mean no offence by this) is some folks "expectations", I guess. For me - gardening is a bit like cooking - you may need to play around with the recipe to get the taste u want. Same with gardening - you may need to play around with different solutions for your situation...

Trust your instincts - gardening skills likely embedded in your DNA!? :-) If it is isn't broken - why fix it... You may suffer a loss one year due to leaf curl (eg) - but until then..? You sound like an aware gardener - you will know if u are harbouring disease - b4 your neighbours.



Time: 10th August 2010 9:54pm

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amanda says...
Ok - my leaves coming thru' normal 2 - does that mean the coast is clear for leaf curl? thanks.

Time: 11th August 2010 8:36pm

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Itdepends says...
Got to be careful though- if you do get it (leaf curl) because you haven't sprayed for it you're trees are going to be dropping a lot of spores come winter time and affecting those around you.

Besides- the best spray for leaf curl is generally considered "semi-organic" anyway- copper sulphate mixed with lime (Bordeaux spray)- maybe with a bit of white oil to help it stick.

Daniel

Time: 12th August 2010 2:16pm

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Itdepends says...
P.S. - I sprayed last week because I noticed my neighbours almond and an ornamental cherry across the street was flowering. It's a good idea to keep an eye out for trees that give you a heads up about the change in the season.

Time: 12th August 2010 2:19pm

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amanda says...
Hey BJ, did some googling - leaf curl caused by a specific fungus - I would hazard a guess that if you don't have it - u won't get the disease to start with (but it will likely arrive at some stage...)

I can't find any specific info that says it can appear - AFTER normal leaves are out.
This link was interesting as it states that once infected leaves are out - the fungus is then INSIDE the leaf (thus topical sprays would not be very effective)

http://www.umass.edu/fruitadvisor/factsheets/leaf_curl_sheet.htm

Brad's comment about the weather is important (it's alot drier up here...until last night, that is! yay rain!)
Judging by the devastating effect it has on the trees - it's probably not worth the running the gauntlet too often?...just my 2 cents worth tho' :)
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Time: 12th August 2010 6:18pm

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BJ says...
Hi Amanda,
I had the problem last year when I purchased the plants, and as the leaves were already out so I just removed them and put them in the bin. (One advantage of living on an inner-city block is that I can take off leaves individually. The plants are literally steps from my front door - I walk past them every day on my way to work).
Apparently the fungus lives in the soil over winter and re-infects when it is splashed onto the plant in spring. This is why I pruned the plants to have quite long stems (less splash back). I have, however, decided to work on the theory that if they aren't infected then all is good for the year and keep on trucking whilst keeping a close eye on leaf burst.

Time: 13th August 2010 10:33am

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brad says...
the thing about leaf curl is that you can very easily avoid it with a mild spray once or twice (e.g. previously or neighbours infected) a year. You can chose not to spray and be fine for years, but if you get a lot of spores arriving one summer, your plant will be dramatically affected the next, potentially weakening it for other problems or setting it back for more than just one year.

Jimmy's original post - spray now - don't regret it later

Time: 13th August 2010 10:47am

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BJ says...
Brad,
You're probably right. It might be a bit late for me this year, but I'll try to get them next year. I'll put this seasons successful 'dodge' of the leaf curl down to 'beginner's luck' and be a bit more prudent in the future. There are other stone fruit in the suburb and I'd not want to damage my own if there is a 'bloom' of spores one season.
= )

Time: 14th August 2010 7:14pm

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amanda says...
Well - may have missed my spraying (and pruning) but I was ready for the rain last week! Got 80kgs roosta booster and 5L wetta soil out (new earthworm friendly liquid one). Then it rained - a blessed 30-40mm!

After that it was liquid gypsum and trace elements and more water (+ rain this week? - fingers crossed)

For the first time in ages every square millimeter under my trees is wet all the way down and then out to about 1.5m radius.

The wood chip, seaweed clay etc from last yr now being devoured by lots of worms - a sight for my sore eyes!

Next - mulch! I want to experiment with some different things this time.

One thing I am going to try this year is cutting large shade cloth 'rounds' to lie flat on the ground (and a gap for the trunk of course) and see if this helps to keep the feeding zone around the tree moister and cooler.

I also wanted to ask if anyone recommends pea, lupin or lucern hay for a mulch?

I am trying to find something that breaks down easily and will allow reticulation water (and light showers) through? Not end up a big water repellent mass?

I am happy to 'top it up' over time. Would love to hear anyone's thoughts?

Time: 14th August 2010 8:45pm

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brad says...
All those mulches are good. Any mulch that contains a mix of sizes will not pack down, so allow air and water through and break down eventually

My Pea straw often gets fungal growth, so make sure anything bought in looks good. You also want to make sure it won't just blow away in your wind. Watering it on application shouldl help. If you buy in as biscuits don't break it up too much which helps keep it in place

Time: 15th August 2010 1:35am

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amanda says...
Thanks Brad - Tiggerbow and I both had that problem with pea straw too! I didn't use it this year and my pea crop has no powdery mildew this time.
Mine also had double gees in it - they kept embedding in my knees - owch.

Julie Firth (arid zone permaculturalist) recommends only light layers of mulch in arid, semi arid zones. I must say she is spot on there. But it's a double edged sword...

That's why I was thinking of the shade cloth rounds (and tent pegs!) - to compensate for less mulch - if that makes sense!?




Time: 15th August 2010 10:54am

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brad says...
(warning: nothing about spring sprays here)
will you still be there another summer?
I'm certainly no permaculture expert and not a gero expert either.

I went with barley or oats straw (can't recall now) this year because I didn't trust the pea straw and the others are quite expensive. I've been quite happy with it. If you don't need extra nitrogen its cheaper

I trialled a bunnings bag of sugar cane mulch on one bed. It was expensive for the volume I got out of it. It does seem to be rotting down more slowly however. Hard to tell as I put it out at different time and different style bed

Time: 15th August 2010 9:39pm

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amanda says...
(mulch topic) thanks brad. I think the lucern etc, will be expensive again this year too.
In fact - it may never be cheap again if it keeps being this dry as drought pushes the prices up. You'd be amazed at how many road trains loaded with hay are on the road going north.

I was wondering about the sugar cane mulch.

I am after something that rots 'fast' or is 'soft'. Will do some more research! But yea u are right - straw probably my best bet.

May be here another summer :(



Time: 16th August 2010 9:30am

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amanda says...
You gotta love spring? :) (and yes - have taken the globe out of that light!) This little one follows me everywhere when gardening - just waiting for a tasty treat. This is above our most used door - so flattered they trust me this much!
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Time: 6th September 2010 11:54am

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Steven says...
Haha thats awsome! Im surprised it thought your sensor light would make a good spot to build a nest.

I love it when wild animals trust you!

Time: 6th September 2010 7:14pm

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amanda says...
Well - I ran the gauntlet this year and lost! :( Leaf curl has now showed up - only on one peach tree.
Only a little bit at this stage - do I assume that the 95% of unaffected leaves will stay this way? Or does the fungus travel around inside the sap flow?
Boo hoo...
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Time: 22nd September 2010 7:45pm

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BJ says...
Thought I'd just update the effects of not spraying on my plants in the hope the sufficient trunk would protect them from the fungus reaching the leaves... it didn't. The first flush of leaves was OK, but the second flush seems to have about 20% of the leaves affected by leaf curl to varying degrees (thankfully most only have a little spot about half the size of a pinky finger-nail)

Brad - you were 100% right!

Time: 22nd September 2010 8:49pm

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Brad says...
sorry

Time: 22nd September 2010 9:54pm

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Original Post was last edited: 22nd September 2010 9:54pm

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