Summers coming quick (forum)

Wayne starts with ...
It sure is getting hot up here so I'm starting to wind down the vegie patch and get ready for summer. The tyre beds worked a treat, especially when making a trellis, it was easy to screw the frames to the tyres.

So what are we going to grow over summer, I'm planing a shade cloth cover and thinking about climbing round beans, eschallots, trellis cucumbers, cos or minuet lettuce and roma tomatoes ----- more suggestions would be welcome.

I have been looking around for different things and found http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/Little-Miss-Seedy__W0QQ_armrsZ1

There's a few things in there I would like to try, in the mean time, does anybody have some long bean seeds spare, they are very hard to come by.

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Time: 9th September 2009 6:14pm

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Brendan says...
Hello Wayne,
I usually put my corn in Sep 1st, but haven't got around to it yet.
You can get Snake Beans (Long beans) seeds from Eden Seeds, go to:
www.edenseeds.com.au
They have good seeds, and have two types of snake beans and 180 types of tomatoes !
I've also just put in some Brown Mignonette lettuce, I find they handle the heat the best.
I also have cucumbers & radish growing now.
It's about a month too late, but try some watermelons, best is Crimson Sweet (Warpaint) I reckon.

Time: 10th September 2009 6:19am

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Wayne says...
Thanks Brendon, I have limited room so need to watch what I plant

Time: 10th September 2009 7:12am

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Julie says...
Hi Wayne, by eschallots do you mean shallots? They usually grow over winter - mine should be ready to dig up in a couple of months.

There seems to be a lot of confusion, especially in cookery books, about shallots. Many of them show pictures of spring onions, which is incorrect. True shallots grow like garlic, forming a cluster of bulbs. You plant the bulbs each year - they don't make seeds.

Time: 10th September 2009 3:34pm

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Wayne says...
Shallots Julie, us old timers know them as eschallots [french]. There sure is a lot of controversy in the cooking world, the Yanks call them spring onions and they don't seem to know anything about what we call spring onions

It's not a real good photo, it's getting dark
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Time: 10th September 2009 6:14pm

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amanda says...
Yum! I love shallots. Last yr I grew them both from seed and bulbs (Aust ones) and had a feast..this yr I could only get bulbs imported from Holland and they grew to a small size and died?
Another wierd thing is that I planted a few cloves of mexican garlic and they have grown one massive bulb (no segments)
If you leave the "Red legs" (from Bunnings) spring onion in the ground it grows into a lovely large n long red onion that is really mild - lovely chargrilled on the BBQ ... (now I have made myself hungry!!)

Time: 10th September 2009 7:31pm

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Wayne says...
When these mature Amanda, it would be no problem to post some over to you if you wish.

Time: 11th September 2009 7:22am

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Jantina says...
Hi Amanda, where on earth did you order shallots from Holland? I'm wondering since the seasons there are the opposite to ours ie. our spring is their autumn whether that was the problem.When I was but a slip of a girl (40+ years ago) my sister brought me over some bulbs but they never grew properly and just sort of faded away which on thinking of it later I attributed to planting them in the wrong season.

Time: 11th September 2009 9:42am

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amanda says...
Morning Jantina :) I just bought the bulbs from my local F&V shop!? Are u supposed to plant onions in spring?

Time: 11th September 2009 9:48am

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Jantina says...
Well that depends on what sort of onions you are trying to grow.Garlic for instance goes in about march here, short keeping onions about feb/march, long keepers about july, spring onions basically anytime. In the cold weather they make green growth and smallish bulbs and when the weather warms up the bulbs enlarge, mature and ripen.I've not grown these shallots you are talking about, sounds like the ones I grow are just spring onions( tiny bulb lots of green growth).

Time: 11th September 2009 10:04am

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amanda says...
Thanks Jantina - yea they are the french shallot I am talking about - they are milder and sweeter than normal onions (and are kinder on peoples digestive system!) They are lovely in asian recipes. Maybe I planted them too early - I lost them after a wet cupla months - must have just rotted away :(

Thanks for your offer too Wayne :) I will get the Aust bulbs next time!

Time: 11th September 2009 3:04pm

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Julie says...
Wayne, those definitely look like spring onions to me! S.onion leaves are rounded, while shallots have more strap-like leaves.

I will have to try and get a photo of my shallots, in ground and dug up, so we all know what we are talking about.

I find I can grow spring onions all year round, but shallots, like garlic, only in winter.

amanda, maybe if you leave the Mexican garlic in longer it will separate into cloves?

Time: 11th September 2009 5:59pm

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Adam says...
Just to clarify shallot/shalot and eschallot mean diffirent things, depending on location.

In Victoria a spring onion is a bulbless onion, white stemm and green top. The same thing in NSW is called a eschallot (now labeled as this in Victorian Safeways now that they are owned by Woolworths). The same item in the USA is called a scallion.

In Victoria if the term eschallot was ever used it would most likely refer to the NSW useage, or less likely be a old fashioned use term for a shallot. These are small bulbed alliums.

Eschallot, shallot and scallion all derive from the same root word and in fact the original way of pronouncing escallot is "shallot".

Time: 11th September 2009 10:03pm

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amanda says...
Oh!..how complicated is that!!? Over here in WA a spring onion is a spring onion and a shallot is the small bulb sold as a leafless dried "onion" called shallot! :)
Why can't they just stop mucking around with the names? Next we will be seeing them labelled as scallions - as we are so americanised anyway?

Time: 12th September 2009 10:55am

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brad says...
What we call shallots look a lot like pickling onions in the shop. I noticed this when I was charged about $3 a kilo instead of about $20 a kilo for the ones I bought a few months back :) These schallots went into the ground and are growing really nicely.

Last year my spring onions didn't flower but i let them grow large bulbs, which were equivalent to sharp white onions.

Time: 12th September 2009 11:45am

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Adam says...
One name is no better or worse then another, as long as the meaning of the word is apparent. Having said that, I made a mistake above, I mean to say that in NSW a shallot is a spring onion. The problem with Woolworths introducing "shallots" to mean spring onion is that then they have had to re-name shallots as
"French Shallots".


Scallion is a very old English word (14th century at least),which American English (and the Irish) have retained, "spring onion" is a very late word.

Time: 12th September 2009 11:57am

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Julie says...
Brad, I know the ones you mean - they are a larger variety of shallot, looks like a small onion. I have tried twice to grow these (much easier to peel) without success. They just didn't grow. Mine are more like an elongated garlic.

So I stick with the small ones, saving the bulbs to plant each autumn.

I wish we could all agree on names and stop mucking around! The only way you are sure is if you use the Latin name, which is what horticulturists prefer.

Time: 12th September 2009 4:22pm

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Adam says...
It isn't a case of mucking about, this is just how language works. None of us expects us to be speaking Old, Middle or Early Modern English to each other for instance.

Latin names are of pretty limited use in gardening. In most case we are dealing with strains rather then specific species and many plants that have been give species level names are hybrids (most citrus for instance).

Regarding shallots, Allium oschaninii, A. cepa var. aggregatum, A. ascalonicum are all alliums that produce small multiple bulbs that get refered to as shallots at one time on another.

The French grey shallot is A. oschaninii, the larger banana shallot or Echalion is A. cepa var. aggregatum (so is actually an onion or a hybrid), there are a whole bunch of other European golden skinned types that are likely to be another species and then there are all the Asian species.

I tend to use them interchangeable unless I want a specific flavour profile (grey shallots are strong flavoured compared to the others for instance).

Time: 12th September 2009 6:23pm

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amanda says...
Thank god chives are chives! :)))

Time: 12th September 2009 8:55pm

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Adam says...
Regular or garlic chives?

Time: 13th September 2009 7:15am

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Henry says...
I grow both shallots and eschallots in my garden. My attached pics will show that they are quite different.
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Time: 13th September 2009 1:28pm

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Adam says...
They are in NSW, for the most part in the rest of the world they are the same thing.

Do you have images of the bulbs and due you use the shallots as a green onion or due you harvest the bulb?

Time: 13th September 2009 1:48pm

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Henry says...
No, I do not have images of the bulbs. We use the small bulbs of the shallots while with the eschallots, its the green leafy portions that are used.

Time: 13th September 2009 3:00pm

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Wayne says...
Isn't this fun, it is always a great discussion topic. I'll be pulling a bunch soon so will post some pics of the fresh and dried [bulbs].

I've bought the best looking schallot bulbs at Bi-low but couldn't get them to strike.

I'm seriously thinking of getting some seeds of these red ones from ebay as shown in the pic.

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Time: 14th September 2009 3:21pm

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amanda says...
Hi Wayne - they look like the "red legs" i got at bunnings - i left them in the ground for a bit longer and they grew into a lovely mild, long red onion - I have trouble with onions here but these gave me no dramas.

Time: 14th September 2009 6:01pm

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Adam says...
Could also be a variety like "rossa lunga di firenze" (long red onion of Florence), easy enough to buy seeds for this variety. Italian seed supplier "Franchi" which sells seeds online in australia.

Time: 14th September 2009 6:39pm

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Wayne says...
Here we go, I picked a bunch. From one tuber you get 10/15 segments. I like them because they grow all year round. Use them in salads or mashed potatoes etc.
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Time: 16th September 2009 5:08pm

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Julie says...
Wayne, they are slightly different to mine, though I leave them in longer to dry out. I find they keep better that way. My shallots have brown rather than red skin.

The only ones I have seen in the supermarket were the round ones, but as I said, two years running they wouldn't grow for me.Did you grow these from seed? Where from?




Time: 16th September 2009 7:06pm

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Wayne says...
I grew them from bulbs that I got from a hobby farmer Julie, if you would like I could post some over to you.

I couldn't get the supermarket ones to strike either.

Time: 16th September 2009 7:56pm

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Julie says...
Thanks Wayne, I'll let you know.

Time: 17th September 2009 3:14pm

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Brad says...
I'd forgotten about mine... in the garden and on this thread. But I pulled one up for a look (probably much later than I should have). It looks like I planted them a bit too close together. Will taste when we're not busy Xmas feasting...
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Time: 26th December 2009 12:45am

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Wayne says...
Good job Brad, mine have been effected by my salty bore

Time: 26th December 2009 7:27am

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Lachlann says...
About shallot bulbs......
This is an amusing thread, so I couldn't resist reviving it.
.
No-one has yet mentioned the hybrid problem. From Holland was invented F1 hybrid shallot seed in the 1990's, displacing the traditional French type shallots, which were always planted by bulb divisions. I am pretty sure it is this hybrid seed-grown shallots now sold in all Australian greengrocers - I doubt if they would multiply if planted.
I guess this means that Australians now have no access to the true flavour of traditional French shallots unless they are specially grown.
.
No mention in the thread yet of true Asian `spring onions' aka green onions, bunching onions, or welsh onions, or, mistakenly`shallot' in NSW. Most Victorian cooks know better than that. I prefer to call these `oriental onions' to avoid confusion. They are an entirely different species to European onions. They are Allium fistulosum. They never form true bulbs, only white stalks and green tops.`Evergreen bunching' and `Ishikura' varieties are known varieties in Australia but there are other great Japanese varieties that deserve to be more widely grown. It is easy to have a little bunch of them in the garden for cooking Asian style. Plant the seeds anytime.
.
Just to make things more complicated some people grow Allium cepa - the European onion - as a spring onion, that is to say as a small green thing before they bulb out in the late spring. This is not what the Chinese and Japanese use traditionally. I have even seen Vietnamese market gardeners in Australia planting true shallot bulbs, and then harvesting the greens which quickly grow, and selling these as spring onions.
If I haven't lost you yet, I will now. That means a few of the spring onions sold mistakenly as shallots, really are shallots after all.

Time: 15th February 2012 8:27pm

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Original Post was last edited: 15th February 2012 9:48pm
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