Waterlogged yard (forum)

Amanda3 starts with ...
I'm planning to plant as many different varieties of fruit trees in my yard, however half of the yard is next to a creek and the soil gets waterlogged in heavy rain, it usually goes away fairly quickly but I was wondering if anyone can tell me which plants would be ok to put there and which ones should I plant somewhere else?

Time: 17th March 2012 8:22pm

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About the Author boscar
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Mike says...
It may be difficult to compare summer a summer wet season with a predominantly winter rainfall area.Many species can withstand prolonged periods of moist soil near creeks so long as there isn't puddling and drainage is ok.Planting on mounds is still advised and out of overland flow lines.Some friends of mine had 6000mm last year with months of saturated soil, and their fruit trees,even near streams were ok.Jackfruit and all artocarpus,limes,pomelo,mandarins,longans,annonas,jaboticabas,sapodillas,black sapotes,canistels and many others will do alright streamside.

Time: 17th March 2012 8:40pm

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BJ says...
Jaboticabas love it wet and can survive a long time nearly fully submerged. Many garcinia (Mundu, yellow mangosteen, achacha, madruno, bakupari) seem to tolerate seasonal flooding and wet feet. Rollinia loves water and tolerates some flooding. Bananas like being wet, but depends on how wet we're talking. Pachira nuts, some syzygium, Wongai, Bignay/Herbert River Cherry, Star Gooseberry, Acai Palm, Jujube, Panama Berry, guava, Abiu, Surinam cherry should do okay if flooded for shortish periods. Star Apple, Matisia, Black Sapote are all supposed to like wet soil.

Plants to avoid are things like citrus, avocados, mangoes, and most other things.

Time: 17th March 2012 9:08pm

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About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
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MaryT says...
Amanda, if it 'usually goes away fairly quickly' then I don't think it should be a major concern. Unless you get regular flooding you'd best not to plant too many wet loving plants that may suffer when dry. We had years of drought before this rain.

Time: 18th March 2012 8:27am

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About the Author MaryT
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Mike says...
I has another 180mm of rain last night.The 5m deep streambank on a council easement behind my place collapsed in several places last night taking half of my ducasse's and threatening a jackfruit,bilimbi,neem,carambola and a few more bananas living on the edge.Bananas toppling over in windy weather on the bank slope take out big lumps of soil that slides into the creek.I may have to do some erosion control measures today if the rain stops and chop out the most vulnerable bananas.

Time: 18th March 2012 8:56am

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MaryT says...
Mike I am so sorry to hear of the damage of flood at your place! Take care.

Time: 18th March 2012 9:04am

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Brendan says...
Speaking of rain/bananas Mike, so far we haven't had any wind, but the small gully near mine is flowing. You can still see a bit of sulphate of potash near the trunk :-) (bloody scrub turkeys scratch around the base of my bananas after worms & lobbies!)

You have had a lot more rain than us down here!

Lucky bananas like water! :-)
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 18th March 2012 9:11am

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Mike says...
No flood Mary as I'm a little elevated (90m contour). It is just a poorly engineered housing layout and council messing with the stream and drainage in the 70's that set up the problem.I had 350mm in an evening in October that caused no problem but that was the dry season rather than during the wet when the ground has been saturated for weeks.

Time: 18th March 2012 9:17am

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MaryT says...
Wow water water everywhere guys. Brendan don't lose that lovely hand of bananas that I can see at the corner of the picture! Mike sounds like you have a massive repair job. I can only spell council with four letters.

Time: 18th March 2012 9:25am

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Mike says...
Brendan that creek looks a bit like mine did but not so deeply incised and the water now looks like the world strongest cup of tea with too much milk.It didn't take much wind (35kn) because it was wet and many bananas with bunches were on the slope.It is the council land after all I have been using but rates are through the roof, and I like most, pay $2500+/yr with extra water bills.

Time: 18th March 2012 10:01am

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Mike says...
Correction 245mm last night and it is still pouring.It is amazing how it varies in a short distance with some northern parts of the town getting way less than 100mm.

Time: 18th March 2012 10:31am

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MaryT says...
Yes, Mike, there are days when the Bureau predicted rain for Sydney and I don't get a drop when it is raining 500M down the road (or vise versa); I should say down the slope.

Time: 18th March 2012 11:00am

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BJ says...
Mike, Brisbane is also a summer rainfall area. just get around 1/3 of what you get. We often do get a bit around June though, and can count on a good shower when Avocadoes, Mangoes, Lychees and Loquats are at their most vulnerable!

Just hoping it will ease up a bit sometime soon. The garden is looking like a jungle. Pigeon Peas and vomit papayas are getting out of hand.

Time: 18th March 2012 2:45pm

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Mike says...
BJ yes you will have a more equitable spread of rain through the year.I would average less than 450mm from May until November but it always rains here also when the avos and mangoes flower.I'm totally over the rain as it pours down in a cloudburst again.I haven't had the chance to mow for 10 days due to weather and the lawn is out of control here also.

Time: 18th March 2012 3:47pm

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MaryT says...
I can only imagine how quickly everything must grow in all that heat and rain, Mike. Haven't you trained your geese to mow the grass yet?

Time: 18th March 2012 5:01pm

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Mike says...
My 4 geese and 6 ducks have about 650m2 at their disposal and the graze continually.They can't keep up and are selective leaving some weeds.That area needs mowing every 2.5 weeks whereas the rest should be mown weekly.A break in the rain, I had better race down the back and inspect the slippage zone.

Time: 18th March 2012 5:14pm

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MaryT says...
Well Mike I know you'll sleep well tonight. While you're out see if you can round up more geese. Wonder if you can rent a goose.

Time: 18th March 2012 5:22pm

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Mike says...
And the rain had me sliding through mud to get to cover.I told visitors today that if they want galangal,gren bananas and tumeric they sould try the coral sea because lots of mine is there now.More geese would mean even more snake beans,avos,carabola and luffa are pulled off and passionfruit vines are chewed through,pot plants are up-ended and brazil lettuce is destroyed.If the gaggle are looking forward to easter a couple might be on KP if there are any more 'incidents'.

Time: 18th March 2012 5:41pm

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MaryT says...
Oh what a mess you have on your hands Mike. Hope you have help. Take it easy; have a good night.

Time: 18th March 2012 8:36pm

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,Mike says...
Mary, no more complaining from me about it,I'm sure the rain will stop very soon.I have a fat khaki campbell x pekin young drake that is the first on the hit list when it really should be a goose.

Time: 18th March 2012 8:59pm

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David says...
Mike how do your avos stand up to all this rain your having ,surely it must be the ultimate test for them

Time: 18th March 2012 9:59pm

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About the Author David
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Mike says...
Very healthy and fungus free with shepard,reed,hazard and wurtz all doing fine except for the bugs biting fruit.The sharwil volunteered to be a dragon fruit pole this week (the 2m left) and looked very healthy but was too shy a bearer.
Last year I had well over 2000mm in January to march and they were fine.While there is mud everywhere they are well drained.I have seen shepard in the 4500mm/yr zone thriving.

Time: 18th March 2012 10:30pm

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David says...
you must have them mounded for sure .

Time: 18th March 2012 10:54pm

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Mike says...
yes David nearly all my trees are planted on mounds that have flattened over time.Another 220mm fell since yesterday morning so the rain is easing slightly and it certainly will stop now.I am about to do some minor earthworks with soil that is like porridge.

Time: 19th March 2012 5:05pm

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David says...
At least nearly all the soils up your way Mike are able to take it and then drain away.

Time: 19th March 2012 5:55pm

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Mike says...
Mission accomplished and yes David that is true the landscape and soils are shaped by the climate they're in.My soil drains pretty well in spite of being clay.

Time: 19th March 2012 6:15pm

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amanda says...
and it sounds like WA and Northern Aust are going to have to get used to this weather too.... Floods on your side..drought on this side :-(



Time: 19th March 2012 7:51pm

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Mike says...
The 100 year trends from BOM show that Australia is generally getting wetter and and warmer with climate change as might be expected with greater evaporation. The SW of WA is the part of the country showing a consistent decline in mean rainfall over a long period.The season to season variability probably doen't have much to do with climate change but there seems to be alot of 'un-average' weather about in the last couple of years.

Time: 19th March 2012 8:05pm

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David says...
All i know is its heading our way, but dont expect as much rainfall as you Mike , just to let you know 1 Ackee put its head through as well as 1 marang.Happy happy happy.How big does the black sugar cane grow ,man the colour is magnificent.

Time: 19th March 2012 8:10pm

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About the Author David
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Mike says...
David, I am glad you have at least a couple of survivors of those two species.The black 'village' sugar cane is thicker than the green,red,purple and brown 'village' canes and great for juicing and cooking.It gets around 2.5m tall around here.

Time: 19th March 2012 8:26pm

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David says...
Weve got some great clumps of black Bamboo, should go well with them, Mike i have high hopes more heads will pop through ,early days.

Time: 19th March 2012 8:36pm

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Mike says...
I hope there was a large enough piece of cane to sprout as it might be hard to get again as I don't grow it.

Time: 19th March 2012 8:49pm

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David says...
Mike it had 2 good shoots on it,any idea how long the santol to shoot the seed is pretty hard.

Time: 19th March 2012 8:51pm

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Mike says...
I can hardly hear myself type with the rain hammering on the roof.I really don't know with santol but I would presume 2-3 weeks.

Time: 19th March 2012 8:58pm

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David says...
Mike i suppose all this rain is tempered with the fact that you generally have a dry winter

Time: 19th March 2012 9:09pm

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Mike says...
In the wet tropics there can still be quite a bit of winter rain because it is in the trade wind littoral zone.Darwin,Mareeba,Townville and Broome have proper dry seasons and monsoonal climates with hardly any winter rain.

Time: 19th March 2012 9:49pm

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Mike says...
I had almost 200mm again last night in an angry storm between 8pm and 10pm and thankfully the rain has eased.I am sure it will be blazing sunshine tomorrow.I see that Townsville also had inclement weather in the wee hours with some real wind problems and damage was done.

Time: 20th March 2012 6:20pm

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amanda says...
I am green with envy Mike...my sandy loam would soak up 200mm like a lyophilised camp meal!
The significance of the trend cannot be over estimated tho can it...a drying trend in the SW WA is going to impact on some multi billion $ industries and in a bad way.

Perhaps a pipeline from the mighty Lake Argyle may become a reality one day. Mind blowing amounts of water are wasted every time it overflows (which is a lot..)

Imagine how it could "open up" parts of WA and make rural living more tenable...rather than Perth-centric..

I certainly would be nervous of setting up an expensive truffle farm down south.. ;-)

Time: 20th March 2012 8:29pm

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Mike says...
It quickly loses its glamour if it has rained every day of the month and already topped 1000mm for March.It has caused flooding,road cuts and grief but now that it hasn't rained since lunchtime all is good.It is dry and the porridge mud set enough for me to mow the lawn after neglecting the mowing for over a week.
The water that flows to the sea is not wasted. It is vital for healthy river systems and provides marine/intertidal nutrients for fish and crustaceans of commercial and recreational value.If rivers don't flush and groundwater is not replenished with flood flows ther can be big environmental impacts.Trying to 'green the desert' has failed and caused harm many times in the past.
Weather systems seem to be migrating poleward in WA faster than other places but not that fast.There have been big temperature fluctuations not that long ago.About 5000 years ago temps were 3 celcius higher than now and seas were almost 3m higher.70 000 years ago world temps dropped 7 to 9 celcius immediately after an giant Indonesian eruption.The world human population apparently crashed to just a couple of thousand as a result.Sorry for rambling folks.

Time: 20th March 2012 9:13pm

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amanda says...
It's ok Mike - not rambling...it's all interesting info for sure. As individuals we live such a short life in the scheme of Things that even a 1 oC increase in overall temps can profound impacts in our short lifetimes.

The point is is that we need to adapt...I am not convinced we can do this so well with the vast majority of our population living in a City...not much room to move there - and someone has to feed these people. Can't sustain that with Champagne tastes on a beer budget...? :D

I bet the rain is getting tedious tho...I feel exactly the same about sunshine believe it or not...yesterday was a bit cloudy and I thought that was pretty bloody good...funny juxtapostion isn't it.

(ps Mike..u would adore the fishing off that part of the coast...I dream of going back up to Kalumbaru lots! There is plenty of water feeding into the coast there...Lake Argyle is an artificial Lake...)

Time: 20th March 2012 9:46pm

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amanda says...
PS - here is a link to our biggest man made inland 'sea' for those interested. It's a very interesting place.
Be aware also that "red dirt" can carry naturally high levels of heavy metals like cadmium (for eg) it's one of the reasons that the roe has to be removed from scallops in some northern parts of Aust. The heavy metal contamination is too high.
Scallops with the roe on fetch much higher prices...(and taste much better too!)

With land run-off comes fertiliser and pollution run off too. It may have been ok 100yrs ago..it may not be desirable now..?
Lake Argyle is man made...I am not aware of any marine research that has been done to determine the effect of it's massive overflow into it's feed area...
(except anectodal reports of a heap more salties... :)

http://www.westernaustralia.com/en/Pages/Attraction.aspx?pid=9001211

(and L.Argyles discharge rate is higher than the higher than the highest discharge rate of the Canadian great Lakes....
The volume of water used in one day in Sydney - is discharged in 26 seconds from L.Argyle...I would suggest that is a "waste" myself..?)

Time: 20th March 2012 10:06pm

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David says...
Mike your back yard now starting to dry out.

Time: 22nd March 2012 10:52pm

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Mike says...
David it is as dry as a bone after a day of blazing sunshine.I have mowed the lawn,erosion has been contained and all is good.

Time: 22nd March 2012 11:06pm

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David says...
Weve been told to batten the hatches ,in for some ruogh wind and rain for the next 12 hrs, cant see it myself

Time: 22nd March 2012 11:19pm

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Mike says...
Our problem was that it sat on us for 5 days when it was juiced up.If it has any sting left in the tail, 40kn and 150mm in 12 hrs is manageable.

Time: 22nd March 2012 11:26pm

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amanda says...
I'd much rather have too much rain than not enough, I realise now Mike...
After oxygen - water is the next most important element/compound on Earth...

You will all adapt given time :)

Deserts sustain very few people for a very good reason...the equatorial belt has some of the most dense populations on Earth...


Time: 23rd March 2012 12:38am

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BJ says...
We didnt get much from that huge band that hit the sunshine coast then drifted out over the bay. Looks like it will just be patchy for at least a few more weeks yet.

Time: 23rd March 2012 8:49am

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