Which mango to choose (forum)

Tommoz starts with ...
I am going to get a dwarf-grafted mango and I am tossing up between 3 varieties:
Glenn, Keitt and Valencia Pride.

Living on the outskirts of Sydney I want something frost hardy. Although everyone says just stick with the Bowen/KP I want something disease resistant. I was getting excited about Keitt but read that juvenile trees are extremely difficult to grow because of disease problems.

Time: 27th October 2012 12:13am

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David_WM says...
I dont think that Glenn and Valencia Pride are dwarf. Keitt has a bit of a different growth habit, long and slender. I understand that in some places it is trellised. Its fruit takes a long period to ripen, especially compared to Glenn. Why is it you want a dwarf? It may be better to get a more vigorous variety and prune it to the size you want. Excessive vigour shouldn't be a problem in cooler places.

Time: 28th October 2012 2:35am

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Tommoz says...
I have been told that keeping a vigorous mango tree at 3.5m is too difficult, and that's about the size I have room for. I have found a nursery which offers a lot of varieties grafted onto dwarfing root stocks. Some other ones include Brooks, Florigon, Nam Doc Mai, Palmer, Royal Red and R2E2. But my main priority is choosing one that will be easy to grow and maintain, very disease resistant, and hopefully the fruit will be not far off a Bowen's.

Time: 28th October 2012 8:27pm

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Brain says...
I have about about 10 dwarf mango trees from 2 different nurseries. However, I do not have the varieties you are after (glenn, keitt and valencia pride), so I can't really comment on diseases resistance.

But I will say that not all dwarf mango rootstock are created equal. I have all mine grown in 30-40 cm pots and the dwarf rootstocks from one nursery is actually more vigorous than the other. Having said that, before I actually located any mangos on dwarfing rootstock, I did some research on American sites and have discovered Nam Doc Mai is can be kept the most compact, i.e. pruning of a major branch every few years and tip pruning. Hence I got one (on standard rootstock) from Daley and it's been a very good tree.

I do have dwarf Palmer and R2E2 and among others. Diseases wise, I'm not bothered by a few black spot here and there and the KP varieties have the most dots. Then again, all my other trees do show some signs of attack, but not significant enough for me to spray and they still look fairly healthy.

As for fruiting, most of my trees are young (1 year after purchase), so other than tasting 1 KP mango, no luck. Though this year, my palmer is looking promising and so is my 2 KPs. My sensation and pravin flowered but did not managed to hold fruit. No luck with R2E2, flowered but no fruit set.

Now, I haven't tasted any American mangos but my research has shown most of them are related to the Turpentine mango (having that taste and is one of the very first mangos strains in the USA), so I am a little hesitant with them as I've read some home growers growing some good looking but terrible tasting mangos.

KP is either an Indian/Indo-Chinese variety, so you have the sweet taste but the downside is the fibre. So if you are after taste, I recommend varieties from India/Thailand (SE asia) as you that similar sweetness.

So in summary, Nam Doc Mai would be my pick. I would go for a KP as it really grows very well - at least in brisbane and if you keep the tree healthy, a few black spots here and there doesn't seem to affect the tree too much - i.e. still flowers and set fruit. Ok, the stems looks a bit messy but hey, no one grow mangos because the tree is pretty.

By the way, i tip prune all my mango trees, keep them below 2 meters tall in pots.


Time: 28th October 2012 11:51pm

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BJ says...
Not all mangoes can be dwarfed sufficiently by the rootstock. VP is pretty tetratoid, so I'd forget about that one. Keitt is spindly, rangy and hard to really get growing well. It grows fairly well in the colder areas and seems fairly well adapted to wet winters, but eventually gets large once/if it gets established. Trees can still bear heavily even though they look terrible. Glenn is often kept to around 15ft, though naturally wants to get bigger. It flowers and fruits early, so that is also a consideration as colder temps at flowering time will harm the chances of fruit set.

Birdwood stocks Dwarf KP types which you can often order through Bunnings. I'm impressed with the Alison Red Kensington Pride. Its a redder skinned fruit that tastes same as KP and the tree is a true dwarf selected from the Sunshine Coast, so it handles cool and wet better than its parent. The other cultivar of note is the King Thai, which is vigrous but compact on dwarf rootstock and flowers and fruits like mad. Its known overseas as Maha Chinok and is considered to sit at the very top of the mango tree for taste.

Time: 29th October 2012 9:12am

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Diana says...
Hi Tommoz,

I would not just be thinking about disease resistance and size but also which varieties might fruit in Sydney. Some mango varieties (e.g. Bowen) do not like Brisbane very much and do better further north. I should think the varieties that will fruit OK in Sydney would be limited (I should think Thai varieties would not be happy in Dural either)- try looking at the edibles page for other people successfully getting fruit in Sydney.

Time: 29th October 2012 11:09am

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Tommoz says...
Thanks for responses.

Nam doc mai reportedly crops well in cooler climates. I was considering another Thai variety, Keow Savoey but I heard it's 'green eating', has a 'sweet/nutty flavour' and is used only as a green salad vegetable. Has someone tasted it? How different is it from a KP? I know it's disease resistant.

The only variant nurseries bother to sell down here is KP and and the odd R2E2.

A book I read advised picking a variant that was poly-embryonic, for what reason I don't know.


Time: 29th October 2012 8:59pm

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Original Post was last edited: 29th October 2012 9:13pm

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Mike says...
KP is one of the few Indian polys and generally polys are sweeter with less acid,less chance of turpentine flavours and less red on the skin.

BJ knows what he's talking about.

Keow saweoy is good fresh as well as being a top green eating type but not really nutty.NDM is very nice and low in acid,keitt is alright but palmer is pretty ordinary.KP derivatives do alright down to Sydney as do the monos keitt and kent with poly NDM probably hanging in there.

Time: 29th October 2012 9:22pm

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Tommoz says...
I was under the impression that Thai varieties (esp NDM) would be better suited to rural Sydney than KP, but most of you are pessimistic about their chances, which is a real shame because I was starting to be impressed by King Thai (Mahachanok). Hard to find climate info and disease resistance on it though. Also I was taken aback by Daley's description of Kwan - "Similar to NDM but double the size, heavy cropper, excellent disease resistance, grows well in northern NSW."
NDM is susceptible to anthrac. while Keow Sawei fruit is even smaller than NDM, and climate could be a problem.

I'm leaning back towards a Keitt on dwarfing rootstock.

Maybe I should just wait another year, possibly Mallika will be available by then...


Time: 30th October 2012 12:20pm

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Brain says...
I would not be bothered by the so call green mangos, it simply means it can be eatten green as well as riped. In coles about a month ago, they had green mangos for sale, it looked like a NDM but i can't be sure as they are fairly large. Anyway, I placed it with other fruits, waited for it to be ripen and ate it. I have to say, when ripe, it was superior tasting to KP. I tried to go back for some more and it was all sold out.

I think reading from the forum posts, you want the best disease free fruit with a high probability of success in Sydney. So unless you can find someone who have grown mangos successfully in Sydney, sadly it's going to be a punt. Whilst mango does well in tropical areas I think they can still work in temperate climates provided they don't get frost. For example, i have a pink lady, which requires medium chill hours, which is really not suitable in Brisbane, yet in warm sunny Brisbane, it has started to flower and I'm hopeful that I will see a little apple in this 2 year old tree. At the end of the day, I'm not expected to have a massive tree that produce the finest quality fruit. Like most home gardeners, half the fun is in trying and the other half is actually getting some fruits that you can eat and share.

So why don't you consider this, get 3 trees, 1 american type with disease reistant, 1 NDM or another Thai type and 1 KP. That way, you diversify your chances of getting some fruit. yes it will be a little investment but sounds like you like mango enough to give it a go.

I do have a dwarf Keow Saweoy, flowered but no fruit set. However, i can vouch for the NDM (non-dwarf from Daley) and the dwarf KP allison red.

Time: 30th October 2012 2:15pm

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Tommoz says...
Was at the nursery today, all they had was 'Bowen's Special' which I believe is same as KP. Strangely the info tag said it grew to only 3m tall and 6m wide. Thought they grew much taller.

I'm wondering why in Australia the Philippine family of mangos are not grown, the information I have says that they tolerate wetness and humidity while the Indian-Thai derived ones don't.

Time: 30th October 2012 8:56pm

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Mike says...
KP is Bowen Special and they get to nearly 20m in the tropics but smaller in cooler areas or with grafted trees.

India and Thailand are the centres of mango genetic diversity whereas the Phillipines is an outlier...the shallow end of the gene pool.Caraboa is the most worthwhile Phillipine mango and it is not more wet tolerant than many thai or indian ones.Those bred and developed in the wetter end of the climatre spectrum have more 'wet' tolerance than those like bowens that prefer drier weather.There Indonesian,thai,indian and yank types that are reasonably tolerant of anthracnose and wet conditions.No M.indica handles very wet conditions as well as kuinis.

Time: 30th October 2012 9:18pm

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VF says...
Has anyone yet got their hands on a King Thai? I've put a request in at a nursery for when they do their next order, so have to wait and see. They did tell me that Fruit Lover/Birdwood has been extolling the virtues of their dwarf Palmer and Sensation, and (regular size)T.Atkins - blahh! I wonder if they're trying to offload these to unsuspecting smaller rural nurseries? If this order doesn't work out, Bunnings next...I'll just keep trying.

Time: 1st November 2012 11:31am

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BJ says...
I've got King Thai. Its set lots of little fruit and I'm hoping I get a few to hold full term.
They do reccommend tommy atkins for cooler climates as it repeat flowers until the conditions are right for cropping, meaning cool areas get a good crop. They taste terrible though.

Something strange I've noticed over the last few weeks are small mangoes in Calypso mango boxes being labelled (stickered) and sold as KP in Woolworths. I havent checked if they are Calypso or KP, but it is very strange that a KP would be shipped or displayed in a Calypso box to a big retailer.

Time: 1st November 2012 12:27pm

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VF says...
That's great about the King Thai BJ - hope your fruit hold. Shortly after I posted earlier, I had a call from Nursery saying that they'd contacted Birdwood, and apparently they're propogating large consignments for commercial growers and if there are any left, I'll get one! Fingers and toes crossed :)
Funny you should mention the Calypso and KP swapping - I bought some of each for comparison last week, and the Calypso actually tasted way better than than the KP which smelt better, but tasted a bit watery and not the rich flavour I was expecting. Got some from Aldi yesterday - good!

Time: 1st November 2012 1:41pm

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Mike says...
I predict a calypso collapso because they are not good enough.A KP trojan horse is too thin a veil to hide the truth.

Time: 1st November 2012 3:59pm

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BJ says...
Calypso is excellent for a week before Christmas. The remainder of their extended season they are generally bland at best.

Time: 1st November 2012 5:07pm

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Brain says...
Calypso's parents is KP and Sensation. And sensation's parent is Haden and Brooks. Haden's parent is Mulgoba & Turpentine. So by eatting Calypso, you are eatting 1/8th Turpentine mango. Which goes to explain why Calypso has a funny taste.

I don't think you can get Calypso mango tree, but KP and Sensation tree can be purchased.


Time: 1st November 2012 6:34pm

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Tommoz says...
As the opening poster I thought I'd let everyone know that I managed to get a dwarf Kwan, so I'll see how that goes down here in Sydney.

For those struggling with Birdwood and others (while Daleys is unstocked) to get the variety that they're after I'd recommend Forbidden Fruits Nursery in Byron Bay as they have 200+ varieties of mango apparently.

Time: 2nd November 2012 12:08am

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Mike says...
Dwarf kwan? Now that would be a mango with muscle and make you a 'happening dude' in mango circles Tommoz.

Rusty's has rabauls,bowens,R2E2's so far but no sam ru du mangoes yet oddly enough.Souey tung lychees had their opening today as did 2 varieties of mangosteen.The seasons are a...changin...

Time: 2nd November 2012 9:03am

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Tommoz says...
Are you saying a Dwarf Kwan is difficult to get a lot of fruit from? I just figured a regular Kwan would be too vigorous to be able to keep to 3.5m. Then again there is so little information available on the Kwan, I just picked it because I know disease resistance and climate is good for Sydney.

Time: 2nd November 2012 8:20pm

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Mike says...
Tommoz they have excellent fruit quality,are not that common and being a dwarf is great.I don't know about their cold hardiness or disease resistance.

Time: 2nd November 2012 8:25pm

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BJ says...
David has a Kwan that he has kept at about 2.5m. Search the forum for more info. I have a little one that flowered so heavily that it almost split in two. The inflorescences are enormous. I'm going to be trying to keep it to about 10ft. Where did you find the dwarf? Chester has said that Elephant Tusk (I think) grew and fruited very well in Northern NSW. Falan is another one Birdwood has been putting out of late and its supposed to be quite dwarf. Its among the top tier of Green mangoes but can split in heavy rains at ripening time.

Time: 2nd November 2012 10:18pm

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Tommoz says...
I have ordered the dwarf Kwan from Forbidden Fruits Nursery in Byron Bay. Perhaps it is a natural dwarf anyway and was labelled accordingly, rather than this being a grafted dwarf.

If a regular Kwan can be kept to 2.5m I don't know why I'm bothering with a dwarf version... Will respond when I find out.

Time: 2nd November 2012 11:28pm

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VF says...
Dwarf Kwan sounds like a worthy contender.

Time: 3rd November 2012 2:31am

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mohammad$ says...
hello
I want to plant mango tree
we live in 27 degree of north and south.
what kind of mango is suitable for our place?
thank you

Time: 5th May 2013 12:29am

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David_WM says...
Hi Mohammad, there is more to a climate than just the latitude. WHere are you, what sort of climate do you have? 27 degrees isn't too bad, I am at 32 degrees, but I get winter and dry summer.

Time: 7th May 2013 11:44pm

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Izzi Dole says...
I had a grafted mango tree which was called peach on the tag and was about 20 years old and grew to a height of 2.5 metres approx..Every year it produced about 15 medium size fruits. Though the leaves were looking very healthy the trunk and the branches were cracked all over and looked very sickly. So last week I decided to remove the tree altogether.I inspected the root of the tree and found that it had rotted and there were a few black ants around the base of the trunk. I am hoping to plant another grafted mango tree at the same spot but am not sure whether it would be okay.Would I have to remove all that soil and replenish with new soil? All the existing roots have been removed from the site.Need some advice pl.I am hoping to plant a grafted Nam Doc Mai in it's place.

Time: 24th May 2013 5:02pm

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Brain says...
that's a shame, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would want to get their hands on a peach mango tree.

I'd plant onto another spot as the factors that gave your existing tree decline may still be there.

Time: 27th May 2013 5:20pm

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Izzi Dole says...
Brian unfortunately it was too late to save this Peach Mango tree as the bark of the tree was cracked all over and resembled a crocodile's skin.I also found that the tap root had rotted just below the soil level.I reckon the tree was too old to be relocated as it was about 20 years old.

Time: 29th May 2013 10:53pm

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Izzi Dole says...
Since uprooting my mango tree I haven't been able to find another suitable grafted mango tree to plant in it's place.Can someone recommend a good grafted variety I could plant? I live in Sydney.I found two grafted mango trees R2E2 and Palmer available for sale recently but I am not sure how good they are.I do have a ungrafted Kensington pride bought last year which i am trying to grow in a pot and had it pruned at the beginning of the year at a height of one metre and it has branched off in three different directions. I need to know if I need to keep on pruning each time. Fingers crossed i am waiting to see if any flowers appear which would mean that the tree is ready to bear fruit. So far no signs yet. My previous Peach mango tree bore fruit within 3 years. By the way I am not sure whether the previous site would be good enough to plant since it's been idle for about six months now.Any expert advise would be welcome.

Time: 15th October 2013 11:44pm

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Brain says...
As for the variety, it would come down to personal taste. I'm not a big fan of R2E2 and never tried a palmer, so can't comment.

For something slightly different, I would suggest Nam Doc Mai (or other Thai type mangos). Some other forum members from sydney are gonig for the kwan.

As for purning, yes, keep shaping the tree.


Time: 16th October 2013 11:28am

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