White Sapote (forum)

BJ starts with ...
Hi all,

I have two White Sapotes, Vernon and Golden Globe, in pots for the minute, but will go into the ground in time. As they have invasive root systems, I was just wondering how close to a ground based structure/path/road is too close? Also, might it do much damage to a fence, if the roots are no problem?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Time: 22nd March 2010 6:33pm

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John I says...
Hi BJ, I'm no expert but from what I have read they should be a minimum of 7.5 meters from each other and any buildings or structures.

Apparently deep watering will promote deep root growth, and shallow watering will cause a shallow, troublesome root growth.

I also have a white sapote in a pot, and I don't have 7.5m spare space, so I am looking at creating a large raised bed to plant into.

Time: 23rd March 2010 9:43am

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About the Author JohnI
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virginny says...
Relax , 7.5 metres is way too much In less than ideal conditions (clay soil ,cool winters ) I have sapotes 3 metres apart and so far the house still stands

Time: 24th March 2010 10:21am

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John I says...
Thanks Virginny, How old are your sapotes? How big are they?

Time: 24th March 2010 11:33am

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BJ says...
I have a good spot for the Golden Globe, but would struggle for space for the Vernon, which I am using mostly as the pollinator - it already has 2 fruits and numerous flowers in its 6L growbag. I'll either put it in a 43cm pot (potting up to 51cm when needed) or put it in the ground on the nature strip behind my house that is about 6-7m from back fence to 6-lane road. The council are removing a pesky Chinese Elm from that spot in a few weeks and I was thinking it might be happy there (as it will mostly just be a pollinator). Any pros and cons or arguements not to do this?

Time: 24th March 2010 3:42pm

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About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
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BJ says...
Would planting two White Sapotes in the same hole as a duo, like Avocados, be an option, or would their roots just fight?

Time: 28th March 2010 8:43am

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speedy says...
No reason it shouln't work.
it happens in nature lots, with many of the same or different species in the same spot with no adverse affects on each other.
The other option is to graft or bud two cultivars onto the one tree.

If there is any difference in vigour of the two cultivars, pruning to manage it would be beneficial.

White Sapote have fairly agressive roots in good conditions that can lift paving.

Time: 28th March 2010 3:27pm

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virginny says...
GOLDEN gLOBE IS NOT VERY VIGOROUS and grows up not sideways Also Vernon tastes better and produces more than G. Globe so give it every encouragement > Mine is 4M high by 4 M wide . I don't know about the aggressive root bit.

Time: 30th March 2010 9:46am

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amanda says...
Is it worth pruning these guys at all? (ie: shaping pruning - as opposed to maintenance pruning)

I am happy doing all of my trees - except - I still scratch my head when it comes to these guys!? They never grow back the way I expect? :D

I did get one split branch/fork last year and I just left it alone (it's just a nursery branch and I was too slack) and it healed very well - much like jaboticabas do.

I have tried "shaping" it b4 and shortening the whippy branches but it made things worse....was it just me or is there a secret with these guys?

(my sapotes thank you!)

(ps - do they establish a leader branch very easily/naturally?)

Time: 1st August 2011 8:17pm

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About the Author amanda19
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Jason says...
There is no easy answer :). Some sapotes naturally grow weepy and some grow tall with a leader. The taller they get the bigger the splat when the fruit fall off so I guess pruning depends how spattered you like your sapotes.

My new favourite sapote btw is Vista :0. It's the first time I've had a notable crop on it and it's a lot better fruit than the other green varieties. For those that wanted seeds don't panic :) they are in the fridge safe and sound. I have to dig a couple of those pleaches up too

Time: 2nd August 2011 2:24am

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amanda says...
Ah - so it's not just me then!? :D They seem to pop out new shoots from places under the bark that are not visible as a bud at all....(and usually at a 90 degree angle!)

Such a great tree to grow - mine still growing so well and disease/pest free - it must have a great root system for searching out nutrients - as it never suffers from any deficiencies. One of my unaffected trees re: salinity issues also.
It's only "thing" is that it loses leaves in summer...so far the bark has not sun-burnt though...

Definitely a winner for the home gardener.

Must agree with u Jason...it really is so much easier to keep fruit trees to a managable size...but I hadn't considered the "splat factor" - lol..

So Vista is the go hey Jason...I will have try all these one day - I still can't imagine any tasting even better than the Lemon Gold..! Yum..

Time: 2nd August 2011 9:13am

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John Mc says...
Rather than digging up my two seedlings, I was thinking of grafting a couple of cv's onto them. Is it too early to do the graft? and what two cv's would compliment each other? I have Golden Globe, Reineke Commercial, Ortego, Hawaiian, Dade, and not enough to rob, a Chris.
Can you green graft them like Annonas? later in the year?
Or not a good idea?

Time: 3rd August 2011 4:39pm

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BJ says...
Depends how much room you have. You could graft GG to both, then graft some others onto the GG once it gets going. It should halve the size of the trees. Otherwise, Frankenstein them.

Form Morton (i'm sure you'll have this bookmarked):
Propagation

Grafting is a common practice in California and Florida in midsummer. Seedlings of 'Pike', being vigorous growers, are preferred as rootstock. Shield-budding and side-grafting in spring onto stocks up to 3/4 in (2 cm) thick give good results. Cleft grafts and slot grafts are made on larger rootstocks and when topworking mature trees. Grafted trees will start bearing in 3 or 4 years. Commercial growers in New Zealand have had success with air-layers. Cuttings are very difficult to root.

Time: 3rd August 2011 7:13pm

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John Mc says...
The seedling trees are a few years old and stand around 3m high, so there's plenty of room for grafting. I was going to lop the top off them soon anyway. So Golden Globe is the preferred cv?
I'm assuming the Chris would be a good compatiable pollinator but my Chris is extremely poor at putting on leaf growth, Lou Glowinski says an Ortago is the way to go.
One of the seedling trees is an extremely vigorous grower. I might do a couple of everthing I can get my hands on. Glowinski and Suzanna Lyle both agree the warmer months are the time to do the grafting.
Anyone pruning when the weather warms up?

Time: 3rd August 2011 10:19pm

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Jason says...
John, I made a post here, not sure where it went. But yes graft when it's warm and also. Ortega is more a pollinator than a good fruiter (it has small fruit). Chris tastes the best and I would say by the look of the flower needs a pollinator. At 3 meters your seedlings can't more than a couple years away from flowering/fruiting either if you let them keep growing straight up it wont take much longer. Maybe see what fruit they will give you first before you graft or prune them?

Time: 3rd August 2011 10:57pm

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John Mc says...
I'll take a pic tomorrow and show you. The seedling trees were only planted in 09, but have a very vigorous growth habit. Even with some grafting, there will be plenty of original seedling branches I can leave till they fruit. As you might have caught on by now, I'm keen to test my grafting skills on a Casimiroa.

Time: 3rd August 2011 11:46pm

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amanda says...
I planted some W.Sapote seeds and some have come up with multiple shoots/'trunks' - do I just select the strongest one and pinch the others out? Thanks guys :)

Time: 23rd October 2011 9:32pm

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Tom says...
Hi Amanda,
That's what we've done with ours. I snipped off the small ones and kept snipping branch shoots until we had a tall whip. Then I bought a similar tall stick from Alex at Papaya Tree Nursery near Los Angeles, and he told me that it's good once they're that tall to top them to force branching. They both put on multiple branches, sprung flowers, and started fruit this year even though they're still skinny and staked. Just to see what would happen if we didn't top one, I let a third one go; and now it's a 2 meter tall whip which doesn't do anything except go straight up.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

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Time: 24th October 2011 12:02am

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amanda says...
Hiya Tom - Nice garden pics :) thanks for that info. Is this what they mean by a polyembyronic seed? Only two out of the six I planted did this multi-trunk thing...

They are an odd plant to prune aren't they :-O Yours looks much better than mine Tom...my fruiting one droops all over the place and is only 1.5m tall maybe..it's got a good crop this season tho.

Time: 24th October 2011 9:58am

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Tom says...
Hey A! You're right - it's a puzzle to prune a white sapote. You never know which way they'll grow out from the cut. That's my experience too. We're lucky with one and not so much with another which is determined to grow lopsided.

Off subject - sad to hear the news about those shark attacks out your way. Hope you're not an ocean swimmer.

Time: 24th October 2011 11:12am

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Julie says...
My sapote fruit refuse to ripen this year - they have sat there for weeks and weeks remaining hard and greenish. Any ideas why this is?

We have had a very odd summer in Perth, as far as fruit goes; well I have anyway. Despite regular water, oranges, limes and lemons are still smaller than usual. I put it down to no rain all summer.

Time: 17th March 2014 9:10pm

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Jason says...
I doubt they are refusing to ripen, just taking longer. They don't "ripen" here until July some years, March in others. It's highly variable. One thing if for sure, the lower the temps when they are ready the better the fruit will taste.

Time: 17th March 2014 9:41pm

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fruitlovermyles says...
has anyone had sucess with planting two different avo's in the one whole ive read different views would like to hear from someone who has had success... what is the process for success?

Time: 18th March 2014 1:12am

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Jason says...
I don't imagine they would enjoy the root competition given that they are surface feeders, probably much better off with a double grafted tree if space is that tight. Out the back of our garden are three very large gum trees growing in thge one hole (naturally) but they are different species and it doesn't seem to have affected them much. Those are very deep rooted of course so it's a different story

Time: 18th March 2014 4:46am

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denise1 says...
Look at www.avopro.org/

Time: 18th March 2014 6:09am

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fruitlovermyles says...
interesting article denise1 thanks i wonder if this works with other trees i don't see why not.

Time: 18th March 2014 1:45pm

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Jason says...
That's good advice, I don't mind the 2 meter circle. It's not like you are planting them in the same hole and at that distance you will have optimal cross pollination which is a big deal in Avocado crop size. But for really good cross pollination the trees need to be like 5 meters apart (closer the better as it drops off sharply). Reed and Hass are the best two in cooler climates too once you take into account flavour and crop size etc.

Time: 18th March 2014 2:30pm

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Jason says...
I don't think you need the enzyme stuff though.. I just grab some dirt and leaves from under a healthy Avocado and put with any new Avocado I'm planting (this is a really advantageous thing to do in my experience). I even did this a year ago to a Macadamia I had which was 7? years old and only a foot tall, now it's 6 foot.. ! (I took dirt/leaves/bacteria from my largest Macadamia for that one)

Time: 18th March 2014 2:35pm

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amanda19 says...
I vaguely remember the same with mine Julie..(in Geraldton) they will ripen no problems - maybe in April/May...?
Memory foggy now ;-)
The commercial crop from the orchard in Metricup should hit the shelves soon-ish too...

Time: 19th March 2014 10:13am

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VF says...
What are anyone's experiences with flowering, ie what time of the year for certain cv's? Currently I have Kampong and Lemon Gold flowering. These seem to self-pollinate ok in my yard. Am hoping the Ortega I bought a few months back flowers at the same time as the Golden Globe and Reinecke, as supposedly good cross-pollinator. I've had the GG flower profusely on its own last year, and no fruit set.

Hoping to get to taste the LG this year, as last 2years running, scrub turkey has pilfered it! Kampong very nice.

Time: 19th March 2014 5:00pm

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About the Author VF
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Jason says...
Pike, Ortega, Vista, Vernon and more of mine flower in Spring. Lemon gold and Reineke are Autumn. Vernon can flower during both

Time: 19th March 2014 10:16pm

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vlct says...
I have a kampong and golden globe.
would they be suitable x poll buddies ??

Time: 19th March 2014 10:56pm

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vlct says...
thanks jase ..

Time: 20th March 2014 7:41am

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yrt says...
At present my McDill is loaded as never before . It stands next to Vernon . I noticed that Vernon will not ripen if picked when totally hard and unyielding ; it just goes 'rubbery' and is useless as food. Mcdill is large ,sometimes very large fruited, and according to California Rare Fruit Growers has an excellent taste. My feeling is that too much is made of the taste differences of c/v's. ;there seems to be a lot of variation between fruit from the same tree.

Time: 20th March 2014 5:51pm

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vlct says...
can they be grown in pots successfully ?

Time: 20th March 2014 8:24pm

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Jason says...
Yrt, they react differently in flavour to each year so I can imagine climate to climate they would taste very different from each other. Some varieties such as Chris and Vernon can crop either end of the year and I've found fruit that ripens over Summer is rubbish compared to true Winter crop. The more cold the year and the later and longer they hang is the better as far as I can tell.

Vlct, I've seen pictures of them bearing fruit in pots quite well.





Time: 20th March 2014 8:42pm

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VF says...
Thanks for info Jason. Hopefully then my GG and Ortega will become complimentary.

Time: 21st March 2014 3:04pm

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Jason says...
It would pay to have a branch of ortega and vernon on one of the trees just to be sure I'd say.

Time: 21st March 2014 4:28pm

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Jason says...
Sorry I made a mistake before saying Vernon and vista where I meant Vernon and Ortega as pollinators as above.

Time: 21st March 2014 4:29pm

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Jason says...
Im not sure.. All I can really say about white sapote pollination is that you have two or three different types of trees. Pike and Vista are typical female type flower with a fat fruitlet in the base of the flower. These types will not (never) make proper fruit without a pollinator. For many years my Pike only made small seedless fruit until I got a ortega and as soon as that flowered I got heaps of large seeded fruit. Bit since ever since then Ive had as pollinator I can't tell you what others need one although I expect all varieties with that type of flower. They happen to be the only ones which bare heavily in my experience.

Time: 21st March 2014 4:30pm

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vlct says...
I thought G.g and kampong where both self fertile. could I get away with just having those two ?

Time: 22nd March 2014 9:35am

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Jason says...
I'm not sure about those. Not many varieties thrive here in Victoria. Pike has always givin me consistent large crops to the point of dwarfing the tree so its been a good one but its definitely not self fertile. (At all)

Time: 22nd March 2014 3:47pm

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VF says...
Thanks for extra info Jason (sorry about late reply). Suppose I'll just have to wait and see.

Time: 28th March 2014 10:29pm

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yrt says...
Jason , regret to disagree but Pike produces for me when nearest other potential pollinator is 30 metres away.

Time: 29th March 2014 10:36am

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Jason says...
I said it wont produce seeded fruit without a pollinator. It wont, like a lot of sapotes it has no male part of the flower. 30 meters shows you they don't need to be close but it wont fruit without one

Time: 29th March 2014 9:56pm

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Mike Tr says...
I have seen isolated white sapotes around here produce well. Blacks,canistel,ross,mabolo and sapodillas can produce on their own. Sapotes are not a related group just fruit from south and central America.

Time: 1st April 2014 8:27pm

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Jason says...
Yeah Mike some of them produce solo but there are some with female only flowers, you can tell which is which by looking at them. Varieties like Vista and Pike have no stamens to speak of. The flowers look completely different on a self fertile variety like Vernon.

Time: 1st April 2014 9:04pm

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Linton says...
White Sapotes and Mamey Sapote from Parkmore today.

Parkmore, Keysborough, have got in a load of White Sapotes, Mamey Sapotes and more Sapodillas.

The Mameys are $15/kg so 1 fruit costs about $10! Unfortunately it was unpleasant to eat so I think it was still unripe.

The White Sapotes however are excellent with a richy creamy luscious lemony flavour. Couldn't eat too many though!
Pictures - Click to enlarge

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Time: 7th December 2014 2:55pm

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JohnMc1 says...
Nice find, I'd love to try a Mamey sapote one day, the seedling I have is years off fruiting. My white sapote's are close to that size so won't be long before I start seeing some colour.

Time: 7th December 2014 7:02pm

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The poster formerly known as... says...
I'm hoping to get down to Tropical Fruit World next week to stock up on Mamey and Green Sapote for the season. They said they should be in stock until around Christmas. My Pantin should hold fruit next season I hope. They said they also have white and yellow sapote on now, so its sapote season.

Time: 8th December 2014 9:54am

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Linton says...
Yes, they've been brought down from Tropical Fruit World.

I wouldn't recommend buying the Mamey Sapotes from Parkmore as they are inedible. They are so astringent it leaves your mouth dry.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

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Time: 8th December 2014 12:41pm

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VF says...
The Mamey Sapote just needs to be given ripening time in a warm area. As long as the scratch test on their skin is a good orange,no green, the fruit ripens off tree. Would be dubious of those cut ones pictured at the market.
Thanks for the tip BJ, I'll probably make a run to TFW too.

Time: 9th December 2014 6:22am

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Linton says...
White Sapotes flowering now!

Pictures of an Ortega White Sapote with many flower buds forming. The tree seems to be too big for the bag it's in so I want to put it in a bigger pot so it doesn't get potbound and there hardly seems to be any soil.

However I don't think it's a good idea to disturb it while the flowers are coming on and last time I repotted my White Sapotes they all defoliated but the leaves have all grown back since.

Please let me know your advice whether to repot the Ortega at this stage. The Kampong also has flowers forming at the moment so both trees may be able to pollinate each other.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

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Time: 27th May 2015 2:29pm

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About the Author Linton
Springvale, Vic
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